About to hop on for the first time, have some doubts

[igbekelepinkman]

I'm a noob lifter. I'm recomping since February 2023. I started at 190lbs, now I'm at about 160lbs. Here is a pic

https://prnt.sc/enkHlz1q70QP

My current fat loss stack (after starting at about half the dosages for stims): Albuterol 8mg, Ruawolscine 9mg, SR9009 (injected) 10mg, and L-tartarate L-carnitine (oral) 5g before fasted workout in the morning. Albuterol 8mg midday to keep the metabolism going. Modafinil 100mg occasionally when I'm too fatigued.

I workout everyday, I lift full-body 2-3 days a week followed by 40mins LISS and on the OFF-days I do 60min LISS

Weight loss has been good. I think I am currently at 17-18% bodyfat levels?

Anyways, I am considering running a TRT dose (150 mg) of test to finalize this cut and making sure whatever I lose is fat and very little muscle. I KNOW I can do this as a natty but my reasoning is that I wanna BLAST eventually anyways so why not hop on TRT now to make this cut faster with less muscle loss (I can go into steeper deficits without feeling like shit and losing lean mass).

My only concern is managing my E2 and whether or not to use HCG (150iu * 3 times weekly) because I heard it also produces E2. If I pin test-e 20mg everyday, would it be good to manage E2 better? Or am I overthinking about E2 at TRT dose? I'm also confused about the ancillaries I'll need. I know I need to snag some AI and SERM. Is Aromasin + Nolvadex enough to cover these, or do I also need Arimidex?

What's ur recommendations?

 

[Gbunk]

1. I’m really positive that albuterol does not work like clen. No fat burning properties.
2. At a TRT dose, 99% of people won’t need an AI. You can determine that most of the time by sides or bloodwork.
3. By blasting, you mean running a cycle and then coming off? If you blast and cruise, HCG would be pointless I’m sure.
4. Pinning every day makes levels more stable which means you would use test P. Most newbies prefer test e as it requires less pinning so just something to think about.
5. You only need 1 source of AI. Whether it’s adex, asin, or whatever, that is up to you. You need to look into different AI’s and see how they work and choose what you would prefer. Nolvadex is a good serm though.
6. I would recommend doing a little more research into how ancillaries work, how a first cycle looks, dosages, etc.

 

[igbekelepinkman]

Thanks a lot for your detailed reply.

1. I’m really positive that albuterol does not work like clen. No fat burning properties.

Is this your anecdotal experience? Isn't the mechanism of action the same? beta2 agonism. Obviously clen hits those receptors much harder and for longer though.2. At a TRT dose, 99% of people won’t need an AI. You can determine that most of the time by sides or bloodwork.

2. At a TRT dose, 99% of people won’t need an AI. You can determine that most of the time by sides or bloodwork.

4. Pinning every day makes levels more stable which means you would use test P. Most newbies prefer test e as it requires less pinning so just something to think about.

6. I would recommend doing a little more research into how ancillaries work, how a first cycle looks, dosages, etc.

for sure.

3. By blasting, you mean running a cycle and then coming off? If you blast and cruise, HCG would be pointless I’m sure.

I meant blast and cruise, yes. Why would it make HCG pointless?

5. You only need 1 source of AI. Whether it’s adex, asin, or whatever, that is up to you. You need to look into different AI’s and see how they work and choose what you would prefer. Nolvadex is a good serm though.

a friend whose opinion I respect greatly told me it's good to have both because one might cause nasty-ahh sides so the other is on standby.

 

[Gbunk]

Thanks a lot for your detailed reply.

Is this your anecdotal experience? Isn't the mechanism of action the same? beta2 agonism. Obviously clen hits those receptors much harder and for longer though.2. At a TRT dose, 99% of people won’t need an AI. You can determine that most of the time by sides or bloodwork.



for sure.

I meant blast and cruise, yes. Why would it make HCG pointless?

a friend whose opinion I respect greatly told me it's good to have both because one might cause nasty-ahh sides so the other is on standby.

a respected source said they don’t work the same even though they are both B2 agonist. He is usually pretty knowledgable.

Unless you want to keep your balls plump, I’m not sure it will do much for you unless you continue to take it until you come off steroids completely. And even then I don’t know how the gonads and sperm would even be after years assumably of just hcg vs your bodies own process. It’s usually used for pct or when people don’t blast and cruise. It mimics hormones so your tested work but if you are continually on and don’t need them when the cycle is done, it seems rather pointless.

AIso generally people don’t have to worry about sides. Most problems occur with estrogen crashing. Personally I’ve never had but maybe 1 side from 5+ ancillaries I’ve taken. I’d be willing to bet you will be okay.

 

[psauce]

I am 100% positive that albuterol doesn't induce fat loss, either alone or in conjunction with other agents. There is an insane amount of data on this because it's a commonly used asthma medication. If you're doing cardio, however, it will make breathing a little easier so it's not an awful idea for a pre-workout... stimulatory, better air, and safe.

I also completely agree with the advice not to run an AI on a TRT dose. Just not necessary, and actually more likely to make you feel like wet, hot dog shit.

One way to make sure you don't spike your estrogen is to inject smaller doses frequently. You actually don't need to run prop to do this. In fact, daily or semi-daily injections of cypionate or enanthate will raise your serum testosterone without spiking it. Because aromatase essentially activates when you've got a lot of extra test around, stable, physiological doses of testosterone won't induce tons of conversion. Vigorous Steve, who is about as good a source on these things as you can find, is actually running daily subcutaneous (as opposed to intramuscular) injections of enanthate and swears by it.

It's smart to have PCT and ancillaries around, in case something goes wrong, but I would suggest you get blood work and only throw additional compounds at yourself when it's necessary. Think about it this way: 150 mg/wk will likely produce a high-normal testosterone level. Someone with normal physiology doesn't run ancillaries, because there's nothing to 'cure' when you're normal. Spare your liver and your wallet.

 

[Gullinbursti]

1. I’m really positive that albuterol does not work like clen. No fat burning properties.
2. At a TRT dose, 99% of people won’t need an AI. You can determine that most of the time by sides or bloodwork.
3. By blasting, you mean running a cycle and then coming off? If you blast and cruise, HCG would be pointless I’m sure.
4. Pinning every day makes levels more stable which means you would use test P. Most newbies prefer test e as it requires less pinning so just something to think about.
5. You only need 1 source of AI. Whether it’s adex, asin, or whatever, that is up to you. You need to look into different AI’s and see how they work and choose what you would prefer. Nolvadex is a good serm though.
6. I would recommend doing a little more research into how ancillaries work, how a first cycle looks, dosages, etc.

1. HCG can still be very beneficial if you're blasting and cruising.
2. You don't have to use Test P to pin everything day. You can use any ester, pin every day and that will give you solid, stable levels which is optimal for most people. Although it can be annoying for some.

As for you OP. No offense but you should at most use a trt dose of test until you get leaner and get your diet and training dialed in

 

[Gbunk]

1. HCG can still be very beneficial if you're blasting and cruising.
2. You don't have to use Test P to pin everything day. You can use any ester, pin every day and that will give you solid, stable levels which is optimal for most people. Although it can be annoying for some.

As for you OP. No offense but you should at most use a trt dose of test until you get leaner and get your diet and training dialed in

Well don’t just tell us it can be beneficial, tell us how?

Daily injecting test e might not even be very beneficial, I never said he couldn’t do it. I gave him an ester, propionate, that is made for injecting every day since that is what he wants to do.

 

[Gullinbursti]

Well don’t just tell us it can be beneficial, tell us how?

Daily injecting test e might not even be very beneficial, I never said he couldn’t do it. I gave him an ester, propionate, that is made for injecting every day since that is what he wants to do.

Daily injecting test e is perfectly fine. I do it, plenty of people do it. It still gives you just as stable levels, way more consistent than twice per week. Those guidelines you hear, like twice per week for enanthate and daily for or eod for prop, those aren't maximums they're minimums. Frequency is always better than stretching it out. There's absolutely zero downside to pinning test e every day. Anyway, HCG will keep your fertility while blasting and cruising, it will make your recovery far easier if you ever have to come off, it will keep your balls full and active instead of shriveled and dead, keep your semen volume full if you care about that. It's relatively cheap, has multiple benefits whether you plan to immediately pct or not and plenty of people include it

 

[Gullinbursti]

Well don’t just tell us it can be beneficial, tell us how?

Daily injecting test e might not even be very beneficial, I never said he couldn’t do it. I gave him an ester, propionate, that is made for injecting every day since that is what he wants to do.

Also there's reasons to not choose prop even while doing daily injections. What if you can't get to your gear for a few days. Daily injections of E while keep your levels perfectly stable yet at the same time you have the benefits of a longer halk life in case you need to use it for any reason

 

[Gbunk]

Daily injecting test e is perfectly fine. I do it, plenty of people do it. It still gives you just as stable levels, way more consistent than twice per week. Those guidelines you hear, like twice per week for enanthate and daily for or eod for prop, those aren't maximums they're minimums. Frequency is always better than stretching it out. There's absolutely zero downside to pinning test e every day. Anyway, HCG will keep your fertility while blasting and cruising, it will make your recovery far easier if you ever have to come off, it will keep your balls full and active instead of shriveled and dead, keep your semen volume full if you care about that. It's relatively cheap, has multiple benefits whether you plan to immediately pct or not and plenty of people include it

Most people do 3 pins per week like M/W/F. So Tuesday and Thursday not pinning those days will be negligible since you just pinned the day before. Pinning Friday and having to pin again Monday is the only time period where it might fluctuate an amount that isn’t negligible. I would never pin E/C less than 3 times per week and prop less than ED unless you want peaks and troughs. More consistent than 2 times per weeks, of course, that’s heinous. More stable than 3 days per week, arguably really only on the weekends.

I see what you mean about not getting to test everyday but most people who have been in the game plan ahead for that. It would be newbies who have to miss a shot. I’ve disguised stuff to get on planes even.

As far as hcg, hcg makes the testies work but it doesn’t do anything for the hpta. I would speculate even with hcg, it won’t be much of an easier recovery. From a logical standpoint, 1 year without FSH and LH is going to be hard to rekindle whether you use hcg or not, right?since hcg just affects the gonads? I agree it would help keep fertility. At the same time though, not everyone loses their fertility while on cycle even while on for years such as we see in the pro’s. I see that argument though.

 

[igbekelepinkman]

@Gbunk @Gullinbursti @psauce thanks a lot for the replies, they were helpful. Just to address one of the comments,

As for you OP. No offense but you should at most use a trt dose of test until you get leaner and get your diet and training dialed in

That's exactly what I will do. I won't go over 150-200mg of test while I'm on a cut.

/////////////////////

I guess I'm pretty set with everything except for the HCG bit.

I need to have some sort of plan if I ever need to come off, I don't wanna end up fucking shut down and needing to travel with no test. not that I ever want to get off from at least TRT but when I go to my home country (living in the US rn), I cannot risk travelling with UGL test internationally. I thought of pinning a long ester for the duration of the trip but I may stay there for 3+ months at times, so that's also not a viable option.

if I use HCG alongside test all the way in blast, cruise, TRT etc, for a few years let's say, will I be able to just drop the test and my nuts will be fine to sustain me?

Or, will I still need a pct when I come off but the fact that I was running hcg will make pct much easier?

I thought about getting legal TRT. In fact, I tried to nuke my test, I drank 5 beers, ate lots of ice cream, fapped 3 times, slept for 2 hrs, drank a coke 15mins before the test, gave it very close to 10am (the latest) and my shit still turned out as 550 ng/dl (I'm 27yo). Ain't no way my doc is putting me on trt with this.

Then I thought about it, and if I do legal TRT then I won't be able to do "extra-curricular" stuff as they watch my bloods all the time, so they'll know when I get a little fresh.

 

[deadlift2death]

my 2 cents - if you decide you want to run HCG the recommended dose is 250iu Every Other Day.
Keep in mind, HCG use will raise aromatase activity.

 

[deadlift2death]

@Gbunk @Gullinbursti @psauce thanks a lot for the replies, they were helpful. Just to address one of the comments,


That's exactly what I will do. I won't go over 150-200mg of test while I'm on a cut.

/////////////////////

I guess I'm pretty set with everything except for the HCG bit.

I need to have some sort of plan if I ever need to come off, I don't wanna end up fucking shut down and needing to travel with no test. not that I ever want to get off from at least TRT but when I go to my home country (living in the US rn), I cannot risk travelling with UGL test internationally. I thought of pinning a long ester for the duration of the trip but I may stay there for 3+ months at times, so that's also not a viable option.

if I use HCG alongside test all the way in blast, cruise, TRT etc, for a few years let's say, will I be able to just drop the test and my nuts will be fine to sustain me?

Or, will I still need a pct when I come off but the fact that I was running hcg will make pct much easier?

I thought about getting legal TRT. In fact, I tried to nuke my test, I drank 5 beers, ate lots of ice cream, fapped 3 times, slept for 2 hrs, drank a coke 15mins before the test, gave it very close to 10am (the latest) and my shit still turned out as 550 ng/dl (I'm 27yo). Ain't no way my doc is putting me on trt with this.

Then I thought about it, and if I do legal TRT then I won't be able to do "extra-curricular" stuff as they watch my bloods all the time, so they'll know when I get a little fresh.

you can theoretically get tested 2 weeks after a cycle. you'd be close to zero test. And how often are we talking about bloods? Just stop blasting 2-3 weeks before the blood test

with HCG use you will still need a PCT.
HCG only mimics your bodies natural LH molecule. HCG still causes shutdown technically.
Nolvadex helps reverse this "Shutdown".
And in theory yes PCT is smoother with HCG
Stop HCG before starting PCT, then a good pct is Nolvadex 20mg ED 6-8 weeks

 

[igbekelepinkman]

Keep in mind, HCG use will raise aromatase activity.

TRT dose of test and the HCG at the dose you recommended will require me to use AI?

And in theory yes PCT is smoother with HCG

Could you tell me why? Because the leydig cells do not die, or go dormant?

 

[deadlift2death]

TRT dose of test and the HCG at the dose you recommended will require me to use AI?


Could you tell me why? Because the leydig cells do not die, or go dormant?

No one can determine how much AI you need. You need to get blood tests to dial in your estrogen.
But yes, HCG will cause more aromatization. Thats not to say you will need an AI. Everyone is different.

Here is what I go by for HCG: https://www.reddit.com/r/steroids/wiki/thecycle/pct/#wiki_hcg

 

[Colette]

I know a bit about albuterol. It can aid in weight loss only by curbing appetite but does not effect nutrient partitioning like clen does. Also, there are better appetite suppressants, if that's your goal. Unless you are using albuterol for a resperstory condition, I'd avoid it.