Anavar PCT, even if it is overkill

[drywallguy]

Male over 30. For a variety of reasons, I want to try a cycle of just Anavar. I have a very healthy endocrine system at the moment, and I do not want to permanently sabotage that; a lifetime of HRT does not sound appealing to me, and I want to keep my gains. My understanding is that a mild cycle, say 25 mg per day, will not completely stop my testosterone production, but it will be suppressive. Would something like Clomid actually help jump-start production, or would I be better served by something else? From what I've read, it sounds like many of these pct compounds simply suppress estrogen/fight aromatization. I don't really mind if I wind up spending slightly more than I absolutely have to, my health is far more important.

 

[BBBG]

I have a very healthy endocrine system at the moment, and I do not want to permanently sabotage that; a lifetime of HRT does not sound appealing to me, and I want to keep my gains.

This is why you shouldn’t do an anavar only cycle. It will do the opposite. It’ll fuck up your endocrine system and you won’t keep your gains.

You’re going to do what you want, but there’s 10,000s of threads where guys say this doesn’t work. And probably only a handful of threads where guys report positive results.

Girls do anavar only cycles. Guys use testosterone. Testosterone is what makes you a man.

 

[dick_starbuck]

I understand that you're looking for a low threshold for entry into this world with seemly low risk and moderate benefits. However that is unlikely to come from 25mg a day of anavar only.

You'll get some muscle fullness, good pumps, and maybe some small increases in strength for six weeks. Then you'll stop, PCT, and lose the majority of what you gained.

If you are introducing any AAS you will be suppressing your own endogenous production of testosterone. Testosterone is necessary for the healthy function of a man. You're better off just running a low dose cycle of testosterone for 10 or 12 or even 16 weeks and then PCTing. Something like 300mg a week would do the trick and would give you much longer lasting gains with much less detriment.

 

[dick_starbuck]

To answer your question about PCT directly. IT LIKELY DOESNT MATTER WHAT, IF ANY, PCT YOU DO. The literature shows roughly the same recovery time for those who use a PCT and those who do not.

If it were me I would do a typical 1000iu of HCG 2-3 times a week while the esters clear your system and then introduce clomid at 50mg a day for a month and run them concurrently. Then stop and feel like crap anyway for a few weeks till your body readjusts.

If only doing anavar, just start nolvadex or clomid the day after your last dose. Do 50mg or 20mg respectively for a month and then stop and feel like crap anyway etc.

 

[drywallguy]

Well, that's disappointing to hear. I was primarily basing my choice on a video from Mike Israetel (not sure if he is well known on these boards, but he's a pretty experienced PED user, with a PHD in sport's physiology, and posts on Youtube quite a bit). He made it sound pretty ideal for my situation, and it appeared that there was at least some research to support Anavar's effectiveness. It's a long story, but, I have some significant atrophy in my right pectoral, stemming from a spinal injury. Over the last year, I have managed to make it regrow to some extent, but it hasn't been terribly responsive to training. I've also got a lingering shoulder injury, and have hit a couple of sticking points in the gym. I've been training naturally for over ten years at this point, so this seems like a sensible time to try some sort of enhancement. I am not a competitive bodybuilder, and train primarily for strength. Is there any oral-only cycle that might be useful? I know, everybody complains about injecting, but it's a pretty difficult aversion to overcome.

 

[BBBG]

Orals would work. Nobody said they wouldn’t. But you can’t run them very long. You’re not going to accrue much new muscle mass during an 8 week run.

Run bloodwork. See what your natural levels of testosterone are currently. If you’re above-average then it seems foolish to suppress that at all for the addition of an oral PED. The net-sum could very well be zero.

If you’re going to do this, you’ll need to get over your aversion to needles. Little insulin needles work fine for most guys. You don’t need to use the 1.5” needles that use to recommend.

 

[drywallguy]

My most resent test levels are from October of last year. They were were 661 total, 90 free. That's a little low for me (800-900 total is more typical, 130+ free), but I'm currently working a graveyard shift, and it frequently prevents me from getting enough sleep. I plan to stop doing that soon.

 

[drywallguy]

Little insulin needles work fine for most guys. You don’t need to use the 1.5” needles that use to recommend.

That, at least, is good to hear.

 

[Spear]

I think it could be worth it at the dose your describing, especially if you pulse it. Take weekends off, only use as PWO, and no I wouldn't PCT just totally not necessary as long as your diet and sleep is in order your HPTA will probably recover faster rather than introducing another compound that your body will have to adjust to once you stop taking that as well.

Using it as a tool to train harder is the proper use of an oral imo, your aesthetic effects from it are just fleeting so there is no real purpose in running it on days you don't train.

oh yeah get before bloodwork, and directly after and you'll have all the answers to your own questions. Pulsing it will negate most organ stress and suppression running it for a reasonable duration.

 

[BBBG]

I think it could be worth it at the dose your describing, especially if you pulse it. Take weekends off, only use as PWO, and no I wouldn't PCT just totally not necessary as long as your diet and sleep is in order your HPTA will probably recover faster rather than introducing another compound that your body will have to adjust to once you stop taking that as well.

Using it as a tool to train harder is the proper use of an oral imo, your aesthetic effects from it are just fleeting so there is no real purpose in running it on days you don't train.

oh yeah get before bloodwork, and directly after and you'll have all the answers to your own questions. Pulsing it will negate most organ stress and suppression running it for a reasonable duration.

Explain how he would “pulse it”. What dose? Just pwo on training days? How many weeks could he do that for? How would being anabolic for a few hours produce any significant results? Did you do this yourself or are you just guessing?

 

[That Guy]

With testosterone, you'll want a consistent level. Not where some days it's high and others low (peaks and valleys). The body doesn't work like that. Think about it as air in your tires. You want the same air pressure everyday. All because you're going to the store down the road doesn't mean you get to drive on flats as opposed to proper air pressure when you drive down the highway.

 

[Spear]

Explain how he would “pulse it”. What dose? Just pwo on training days? How many weeks could he do that for? How would being anabolic for a few hours produce any significant results? Did you do this yourself or are you just guessing?

yeah I've done 20mg var 2-3 days a week sometimes just once while I was off injectables and then while I did hcg mono, so on and off for 2 years. Steadily added on all my lifts, after 3 months I would take at least a month off . The only reason I was taking it was to offset fatigue from work, I walk 10 miles a day on average at work not counting any other activity. Taking it daily you will experience suppression to some degree, by only taking it when u need it you minimize the suppression. Now in a muscle building context obviously this is not a recommended practice, but to me orals are just tools and I used the tool how I needed it with the goal of minimizing cost to my body. I think var is probably the only oral that you can get away with this practice.

but you're right @BBBG this isn't the context OP would want to use var, but I'm just describing the only scenario in my experience where running an oral without a base is workable

 

[BBBG]

yeah I've done 20mg var 2-3 days a week sometimes just once while I was off injectables and then while I did hcg mono, so on and off for 2 years. Steadily added on all my lifts, after 3 months I would take at least a month off . The only reason I was taking it was to offset fatigue from work, I walk 10 miles a day on average at work not counting any other activity. Taking it daily you will experience suppression to some degree, by only taking it when u need it you minimize the suppression. Now in a muscle building context obviously this is not a recommended practice, but to me orals are just tools and I used the tool how I needed it with the goal of minimizing cost to my body. I think var is probably the only oral that you can get away with this practice.

but you're right @BBBG this isn't the context OP would want to use var, but I'm just describing the only scenario in my experience where running an oral without a base is workable

Great explanation. It looks like that was the right approach for your specific scenario. The first response could have been misunderstood by newbies.

 

[webstar138]

Test only cycle for 16 weeks, cyp 250-300 a week. I know it sounds scary for somebody that has never done it but youll get far more out of it. Next time, you can sprinkle the anavar in

 

[drywallguy]

Well, I appreciate all the information and suggestions; from what I've read here, along with some additional research that I've done on my own, it does sound like a low dose test cycle would be more useful. Since I'll have to get used to injecting anyway, I am leaning towards a shorter ester. The reason being, if I do get bad side-effects (unlikely as that may be), I can stop, and the compound will clear from my system relatively quickly. I might also try what Spear is doing, it sounds very sensible to me.

 

[BBBG]

800-900 total test and 130 free test as natural numbers is good.

If I had numbers like that, I wouldn’t fuck around with anything.

If you run a low dose test cycle you’d have total test numbers of 1100-1700. Not really a significant change.

You need to maximize your training and diet or you’ll be underwhelmed with the results.

 

[Spear]

800-900 total test and 130 free test as natural numbers is good.

If I had numbers like that, I wouldn’t fuck around with anything.

If you run a low dose test cycle you’d have total test numbers of 1100-1700. Not really a significant change.

You need to maximize your training and diet or you’ll be underwhelmed with the results.

this is so true it hurts, I wasted a few years blasting and cruising without eating clean, cardio, other recovery work and now that im eating clean and doing it all years later the difference is that im getting just as much results as I had gotten in the past, with a literal fraction of the Anabolics. I think what people don't understand the most is that doing something right everyday for years is when the benefits really start to show, at first you might notice incremental improvement but the real changes come when you can maintain your diet and training over a very long arc of time, compounds are fun and all but they are just a small piece of the equation when counting the things that really matter, and the compounds contain all of the negative side effects, whereas the training, diet, and recovery habits have 0 negative if you do it right