Capt America’s Ngenla Log

[CaptainAmerica]

Starting the log here. Will likely not update that often as you only pin this stuff once a week as it is.

I will be getting igf, serum, and glucose testing one per month while I am using the product with the first set of bloodwork being drawn first week of November.

I am open to comments on the thread but please keep on topic and direct comments only to me regarding the log or progress. To discuss Ngenla not related to the log, you may open another thread.

As far as I have seen, there is not yet a log of Ngenla’s use in bodybuilding and I also haven’t seen the proper dosing protocol. Looking forward to completing this and getting some results for the community.

 

[CaptainAmerica]

38.5mg dose weekly equivalent to 6iu (2mg) Geno per day. Initial injection 10/1.

60mg pen only disburses a maximum of 30mg requiring 2 injections to reach my dose. I suggest to use different spots as GH can cause localized lipoatrophy and this is noted in the Ngenla literature. 2 injections per week is still better than 7, or perhaps 14 if you are splitting dose as I was.

Initial 30mg subq injection was seemingly a lot of volume. It created a large bump at the injection site, which dissipated within a couple minutes. 8.5mg no noticeable difference from standard Geno injection.

 

[CaptainAmerica]

Used the rest of my 60mg and did the remaining dose with the 24mg.

Looks like dose is not volume is not dose dependent. The 24mg was only about 17mg used but volume was that’s still over half the pen. Both injections left a little bump at the site but it dissipated again shortly after. No pain or redness but I’ve also been doing gh subq in the stomach area for a long time.

There was a little liquid left in the 60mg pen. I am using pen needles and the dial to extract the right doses so I did not reach a slin pin up there to extract the rest.

Also doing so, I would not be sure what dose I was getting without doing additional math. I would like to keep variables to a minimum during this log and initial run.

However. I would suggest at this point, from both a cost savings perspective per mg and from a volume per injection perspective that the 60mg pen is the way to go.

Of course this may be dose dependent, but I don’t feel 6iu is a huge dose and many users are running perhaps only a little less. My coach doesn’t put his Olympians on more than 9iu as another example.

If I had to reach 38.5mg with 24mg pens, that’s 1.6 pens which is just a lot of injection volume and I’d be burning through them very quickly. Obviously just a preference here but I’m a fiscally responsible guy, until I’m not.

 

[CaptainAmerica]

3rd injection last night. Nothing additional to report

Now go hit a leg day. Your legs are small.

 

[brutaltarik]

What was your HGH protocol before if any? Are you seeing similar or the same side effects? Anything normal to HGH like cts, lethargy?

 

[readalot]

Thanks for your efforts on this log. Have you thought about health implications of this delivery method vs standard somatropin dosing? Let's say AUC for serum GH and IGF-1 the same for each case. In the former case the peak/trough ratio much lower and you have more constant levels throughout the week. In the later case, the pulsatility is more physiologic but of course Cavg can be supra depending on dosing regimen.

What I am getting at...is there a price to be paid for the convenience of somatrogon in terms of insulin resistance/other health effects for the same duration of Cavg (GH or IGF-1)?

Thanks for this forum as well. Best wishes on your adventure.

 

[brutaltarik]

Thanks for your efforts on this log. Have you thought about health implications of this delivery method vs standard somatropin dosing? Let's say AUC for serum GH and IGF-1 the same for each case. In the former case the peak/trough ratio much lower and you have more constant levels throughout the week. In the later case, the pulsatility is more physiologic but of course Cavg can be supra depending on dosing regimen.

What I am getting at...is there a price to be paid for the convenience of somatrogon in terms of insulin resistance/other health effects for the same duration of Cavg (GH or IGF-1)?

Thanks for this forum as well. Best wishes on your adventure.

Take it with a grain of salt but there's a video from Chase Irons where he says he used a 24mg pen every other day and had only a very small bump in FBG. From like 4->6, well under any area of concern. Just one anecdote.

 

[CaptainAmerica]

What was your HGH protocol before if any? Are you seeing similar or the same side effects? Anything normal to HGH like cts, lethargy?

6iu geno per day split 3/3

No difference this far in anything. Been on gh for years so likely won’t notice much changes

 

[CaptainAmerica]

Take it with a grain of salt but there's a video from Chase Irons where he says he used a 24mg pen every other day and had only a very small bump in FBG. From like 4->6, well under any area of concern. Just one anecdote.

We don’t quote Chase Irons in my log. He’s not accurate in his information so anything he puts out is also inaccurate

 

[CaptainAmerica]

Thanks for your efforts on this log. Have you thought about health implications of this delivery method vs standard somatropin dosing? Let's say AUC for serum GH and IGF-1 the same for each case. In the former case the peak/trough ratio much lower and you have more constant levels throughout the week. In the later case, the pulsatility is more physiologic but of course Cavg can be supra depending on dosing regimen.

What I am getting at...is there a price to be paid for the convenience of somatrogon in terms of insulin resistance/other health effects for the same duration of Cavg (GH or IGF-1)?

Thanks for this forum as well. Best wishes on your adventure.

The studies have shown peak concentration of IGF at the 48-72 hours mark. However, under standard testing methodologies, it is not appropriate to test at peak.

At 96 hours is when testing was completed and it was here where data showed a leveling followed by a drop to the baseline by the time the next injection came.

As far as insulin resistance and all other side effects of gh those are still present in the included literature. Water retention, thyroid, insulin resistance, etc. so those will continue to be monitored. Studies noted no significant decrease or increase in side effects from genotropin.

Under the parameters of my “experiment” I am not attempting to “optimize” results in the sense that I am trying to be “better” than genotropin. I am using the product as it is intended to be used, aka weekly, and attempting to match genotropin.

Many folks have stated to me they believe this should be injected EOD. I disagree. Pin as few times as possible for an equal result of the previous generation product and keep side effects managed/minimal.

This isn’t an oil and I feel like people are treating it as such with regard to smoothing out hormonal imbalances. This is a completely different pathway and studies conclude a once weekly dose at this dosage equivalent has an equal efficacy to genotropin.

 

[readalot]

The studies have shown peak concentration of IGF at the 48-72 hours mark. However, under standard testing methodologies, it is not appropriate to test at peak.

At 96 hours is when testing was completed and it was here where data showed a leveling followed by a drop to the baseline by the time the next injection came.

As far as insulin resistance and all other side effects of gh those are still present in the included literature. Water retention, thyroid, insulin resistance, etc. so those will continue to be monitored. Studies noted no significant decrease or increase in side effects from genotropin.

Under the parameters of my “experiment” I am not attempting to “optimize” results in the sense that I am trying to be “better” than genotropin. I am using the product as it is intended to be used, aka weekly, and attempting to match genotropin.

Many folks have stated to me they believe this should be injected EOD. I disagree. Pin as few times as possible for an equal result of the previous generation product and keep side effects managed/minimal.

This isn’t an oil and I feel like people are treating it as such with regard to smoothing out hormonal imbalances. This is a completely different pathway and studies conclude a once weekly dose at this dosage equivalent has an equal efficacy to genotropin.

Thanks for your thoughts.

 

[brutaltarik]

We don’t quote Chase Irons in my log. He’s not accurate in his information so anything he puts out is also inaccurate

LOL. fair play.

 

[CaptainAmerica]

The bloodwork I have ordered. 11/8 scheduled. 4 days post GH pin per the studies.

 

[brutaltarik]

any more cool anecdotal stuff or pretty much the same as HGH as far as "feels" go?

 

[CaptainAmerica]

any more cool anecdotal stuff or pretty much the same as HGH as far as "feels" go?

No sir. Same same. Each pin I’m just reminded of the pin volume though. Would be strange for someone on 10iu needing 64mg Ngenla to pin that much volume. Maybe would need to start breaking up into 3 pins of 21mg? Just thinking out loud there though.

But yeah nothing is that different. And it’s really nice not to have to pin so frequently. Ngl I’d sometimes forget on my genos but this it’s 2 pins on Tuesday and done until next Tuesday. Much nicer

 

[FrancoC]

The bloodwork I have ordered. 11/8 scheduled. 4 days post GH pin per the studies.
View attachment 4674

Aside from the specific panels geared towards GH, are the rest your typical standard panels you test for health? And are there any others you usually test for that you aren’t this time?

 

[CaptainAmerica]

Aside from the specific panels geared towards GH, are the rest your typical standard panels you test for health? And are there any others you usually test for that you aren’t this time?

No sir. That is my usual testing. Ferritin they sometimes toss in for free so that’s a maybe lol and I usually don’t get GH serum but always IGF.

But otherwise that is my order every 3 months

 

[CaptainAmerica]

Blood draw today. Will post the relevant results for GH and sugars once received from the lab

 

[CaptainAmerica]

Alright Gents. Bloods received. I will only be posting relevant bloods that have to do with GH and its use/side effects. GH serum was not added until this most recent test so I do not have history there. GH was a constant dose of 6iu per day of pharma genotropin until October when I moved to the Ngenla at a calculated equivalent dose of 38.5mg per week. I am also on 300mcg of T4, 500mg of metformin, and varying amount of insulin. Only metformin was kept for the August prep draw.

First here are bloods from May 2024:






Next here are from August. Also mind you these were taken 4 days out. Meaning GH and insulin were dropped. It also looks like this test did not include thyroid info:





Can only attach 10 pics so second post coming with November draw.

 

[CaptainAmerica]

These were drawn Nov 8 approximately 5 weeks after start of Ngnenla protocol. 6iu GH equivalent:







Overall IGF has noted a small increase which does match the studies. I don't recall the studies looking at GH serum and don't have my own history of GH serum to reference but obviously it's there, pens aren't fake (which is good news lol).

My thyroid is a concern. I am already on a high dose of t4 and it was managed. Ngenla seemed to mess that up. Total conjecture here as I am not a pharmacist but perhaps the constant presence of GH versus a daily pulse causes more t4 conversion.

Also, and any help here is appreciated, my A1c and glucose are in line but my insulin is high in both the May and November bloodwork. GH would obviously cause resistance but if I were resistant those numbers should be out of wack, correct? Or is it because of the exogenous insulin? Though I am only on humalog pre and post workout. Wouldn't have been on for this fasted test. Or is that just part of bodybuilding given the heightened consumption of food/carbs on a daily basis?

Those are really my only two concerns in taking the Ngenla. I saw no noticeable difference in water/weight, sleep, fat loss, etc between Geno and Ngenla. It's very nice to only pin one day a week, just as I noted it can be quite a lot of pin volume especially for those on a higher dose than me.

Comments, concerns, questions within reason will be answered, and assistance in interpreting the insulin question would be greatly appreciated.