Capt America’s Ngenla Log

[Matrix]

@readalot

 

[readalot]

These were drawn Nov 8 approximately 5 weeks after start of Ngnenla protocol. 6iu GH equivalent:
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Overall IGF has noted a small increase which does match the studies. I don't recall the studies looking at GH serum and don't have my own history of GH serum to reference but obviously it's there, pens aren't fake (which is good news lol).

My thyroid is a concern. I am already on a high dose of t4 and it was managed. Ngenla seemed to mess that up. Total conjecture here as I am not a pharmacist but perhaps the constant presence of GH versus a daily pulse causes more t4 conversion.

This was my line of questioning above but I didn't want to push the subject after your response. My concern was any potential price to be paid for more constant GH concentration for same AUC (less pulsatile)?

Respectfully, you could order 3 thyroid tests and get much better insight....

TSH
FT4
FT3

You got the TSH data which is great. It paints a clear picture that you've been overmedicating with the exogenous T4.

Also, and any help here is appreciated, my A1c and glucose are in line but my insulin is high in both the May and November bloodwork. GH would obviously cause resistance but if I were resistant those numbers should be out of wack, correct? Or is it because of the exogenous insulin? Though I am only on humalog pre and post workout. Wouldn't have been on for this fasted test. Or is that just part of bodybuilding given the heightened consumption of food/carbs on a daily basis?

Your trends on insulin (I assume this was fasting), A1C and glucose give pause. Sure your A1C and glucose don't show insulin resistance currently but as you know I'm sure, more insulin floating around causes reduced insulin sensitivity. Longer term you'd want to watch out for signs of pre diabetes. Great you are on top of that.

Those are really my only two concerns in taking the Ngenla. I saw no noticeable difference in water/weight, sleep, fat loss, etc between Geno and Ngenla. It's very nice to only pin one day a week, just as I noted it can be quite a lot of pin volume especially for those on a higher dose than me.

Comments, concerns, questions within reason will be answered, and assistance in interpreting the insulin question would be greatly appreciated.

Pay to play I understand; I don't understand keeping yourself in a T4 induced hyperthyroid state. Reduce T4 dose modestly, get the three tests above every few months and adjust accordingly while titrating to reasonable TSH target.

T3 uptake useless.
FT4 index outdated.
Total T4 can be influenced by AAS via TBG.

Thanks for sharing your log.

 

[CaptainAmerica]

This was my line of questioning above but I didn't want to push the subject after your response. My concern was any potential price to be paid for more constant GH concentration for same AUC (less pulsatile)?

Respectfully, you could order 3 thyroid tests and get much better insight....

TSH
FT4
FT3

You got the TSH data which is great. It paints a clear picture that you've been overmedicating with the exogenous T4.



Your trends on insulin (I assume this was fasting), A1C and glucose give pause. Sure your A1C and glucose don't show insulin resistance currently but as you know I'm sure, more insulin floating around causes reduced insulin sensitivity. Longer term you'd want to watch out for signs of pre diabetes. Great you are on top of that.



Pay to play I understand; I don't understand keeping yourself in a T4 induced hyperthyroid state. Reduce T4 dose modestly, get the three tests above every few months and adjust accordingly while titrating to reasonable TSH target.

Thanks for sharing your log.

I could switch to those tests easily so can make that change.

I am confused about the TSH and T4. My t4 is lower than range on the dose I am on. GH burns through T4. So what indicates overmedicating when even at the dose I’m on I’m still not achieving the desired result?

 

[readalot]

I could switch to those tests easily so can make that change.

I am confused about the TSH and T4. My t4 is lower than range on the dose I am on. GH burns through T4. So what indicates overmedicating when even at the dose I’m on I’m still not achieving the desired result?

You don't know what your FT4 and FT3 are. You haven't measured them. You have data for poor stand ins of FT4 and FT3.

As I mentioned T4 (total T4) includes bound T4 to TBG. Androgens (especially 17aa AAS) can reduce TBG and skew T4. You want to look at free T4 (FT4) and free T3 (FT3), not potentially inaccurate proxies for them.

 

[readalot]

Thyroid Function Tests - Clinical Methods - NCBI Bookshelf

 

[readalot]

Also this thread has more comments and links.

https://thinksteroids.com/community/threads/adding-t4-to-gh.134420363/post-3178561

Nice primer:

Thyroid function tests - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

 

[Thunder Buff]

These were drawn Nov 8 approximately 5 weeks after start of Ngnenla protocol. 6iu GH equivalent:
View attachment 4884
View attachment 4885
View attachment 4886
View attachment 4887
View attachment 4888
View attachment 4889

Overall IGF has noted a small increase which does match the studies. I don't recall the studies looking at GH serum and don't have my own history of GH serum to reference but obviously it's there, pens aren't fake (which is good news lol).

My thyroid is a concern. I am already on a high dose of t4 and it was managed. Ngenla seemed to mess that up. Total conjecture here as I am not a pharmacist but perhaps the constant presence of GH versus a daily pulse causes more t4 conversion.

Also, and any help here is appreciated, my A1c and glucose are in line but my insulin is high in both the May and November bloodwork. GH would obviously cause resistance but if I were resistant those numbers should be out of wack, correct? Or is it because of the exogenous insulin? Though I am only on humalog pre and post workout. Wouldn't have been on for this fasted test. Or is that just part of bodybuilding given the heightened consumption of food/carbs on a daily basis?

Those are really my only two concerns in taking the Ngenla. I saw no noticeable difference in water/weight, sleep, fat loss, etc between Geno and Ngenla. It's very nice to only pin one day a week, just as I noted it can be quite a lot of pin volume especially for those on a higher dose than me.

Comments, concerns, questions within reason will be answered, and assistance in interpreting the insulin question would be greatly appreciated.

what is the time between your last pin and this blood draw? I am curious to know how serum GH spikes relative to injection timing

 

[CaptainAmerica]

what is the time between your last pin and this blood draw? I am curious to know how serum GH spikes relative to injection timing

Tuesday to Friday

 

[Sector]

Any more updates on the ngenla? Did you feel it’s worth it? I think down the road it might be a good technology once it’s slightly more advanced but feel right now especially with price as a factor that rHGH is probably still superior, and leads to less insulin resistance than the long acting form of NGenla

The low t4 levels are really surprising from your bloodwork, especially since you’re on 300mcg t4

I need about 75mcg-100mcg t4 to bring me to a mid normal range on 7.2iu rHGH. 300mcg is very high unless there’s maybe some pre existing thyroid stuff going on or other interactions which could cause your t4 to convert to t3 more rapidly