getting suspicious - no sides even at 10iu hgh

[Catteni]

I order tests through discountedlabs.com, which then just sends them to Quest to draw the blood anyways. Way cheaper than buying the tests from Quest and they have a lot more tests

You get your GH labs back yet man?

 

[workout1234]

You get your GH labs back yet man?

Yup, my igf was 345, which seemed decent given i was in the mid 200s before starting hgh. I see some people with higher igf values on lower doses but I think a lot can influence igf values so I'll take it.

 

[Catteni]

@hexagonal @BBBG @PCT4ME @readalot @Sector @AlexDavis43 I posted bloods with IGF results yesterday.

Generic kit, 1iu up to 6th titration. Missed some days here and there though tbh.

IGF 5< ng/dl. Thoughts on that?

Purpose was to see a baseline, even though skewed since already on generic, before starting Opti goldtops 6iu IM bolus nightly for 6 weeks then do IGF and GH repeat labs.

 

[Sector]

@hexagonal @BBBG @PCT4ME @readalot @Sector @AlexDavis43 I posted bloods with IGF results yesterday.

Generic kit, 1iu up to 6th titration. Missed some days here and there though tbh.

IGF 5< ng/dl. Thoughts on that?

Purpose was to see a baseline, even though skewed since already on generic, before starting Opti goldtops 6iu IM bolus nightly for 6 weeks then do IGF and GH repeat labs.

You’re saying your IGF was less than 5ng/dl ?!

Just trying to understand. You were basically running 6ius a night for how many weeks before the test? And it came in that low? Even with no GH it should be much higher than 5ng/dl. The bottom end of the reference range should be 20x that score or more, depending on your age

 

[PCT4ME]

You’re saying your IGF was less than 5ng/dl ?!

Just trying to understand. You were basically running 6ius a night for how many weeks before the test? And it came in that low? Even with no GH it should be much higher than 5ng/dl. The bottom end of the reference range should be 20x that score or more, depending on your age

No, that's IGF-1 Binding Protein, not IGF.

I don't see IGF in his results.

 

[Sector]

No, that's IGF-1 Binding Protein, not IGF.

I don't see IGF in his results.

Makes more sense I hadn’t seen the test. Just read his post saying igf was less than that. I’ll try to find his post of the test

 

[Catteni]

Makes more sense I hadn’t seen the test. Just read his post saying igf was less than that. I’ll try to find his post of the test

Yeah, provider ordered wrong IGF test and I didn’t catch.

Ordered a private one but have already started the gold tops. But only on week 1.

@Sector it’s in my most recent Cyp bloods posted yesterday.

 

[Sector]

Hmm yeah that bloodwork doesn’t really say much. I wouldn’t worry about that number too much seems pretty normal with the stack you’re running. Even normal IGF-1 tests can vary a ton due to a lot of factors. Having a baseline or random checks can be helpful but doesn’t really paint the picture too well since there’s so many things that influence it. If you’re doing a test strictly to see how strong your GH was I’d say do a GH serum test. The only real variable is the timing. 10iu IM about 3 hours should do it. Anything over 30 ng/dl would be a good score for serum

As for your low IGF1 Binding protein result though here’s the data from from chat gpt on the causes, most of which apply to you

Potential causes:

Hyperinsulinemia / Insulin Resistance
– Insulin strongly suppresses IGFBP-1 production in the liver.
– Seen in metabolic syndrome, early type 2 diabetes, and high-carb states.

High GH / IGF-1 states (excess exogenous GH, acromegaly) may lower IGFBP-1 indirectly by increasing insulin.

Recent feeding / postprandial state during blood draw.

Possible androgen excess (since androgens may suppress IGFBP-1).

 

[BBBG]

Purpose was to see a baseline, even though skewed since already on generic, before starting Opti goldtops 6iu IM bolus nightly for 6 weeks then do IGF and GH repeat labs.

If your purposes are to see if the gold tops are “good” then do what @Geardad did and order the GH test and 90 mins before your blood is drawn administer 10 iu…. Or send a vial to Jano for analysis… or both.

If you want to see how it affects your IGF, then run the 6 iu/day for at least 6 weeks and have the IGF test run. But like @Sector already pointed out, several OTHER things affect that.

If you ever listen to Dr Todd Lee on his Anabolic University Podcast he goes into great detail for his protocol. It’s a good overview, whether you follow his actual protocol or not. He has an interesting step-by-step process for dialing in your testosterone, then your estrogen, then your HGH, then whether to run Masteron or not as an additional androgen. Look for “Anabolic University: Find the best dose for YOU Testosterone and Growth Hormone”. 30 mins long.

 

[Catteni]

Hmm yeah that bloodwork doesn’t really say much. I wouldn’t worry about that number too much seems pretty normal with the stack you’re running. Even normal IGF-1 tests can vary a ton due to a lot of factors. Having a baseline or random checks can be helpful but doesn’t really paint the picture too well since there’s so many things that influence it. If you’re doing a test strictly to see how strong your GH was I’d say do a GH serum test. The only real variable is the timing. 10iu IM about 3 hours should do it. Anything over 30 ng/dl would be a good score for serum

As for your low IGF1 Binding protein result though here’s the data from from chat gpt on the causes, most of which apply to you

Potential causes:

Hyperinsulinemia / Insulin Resistance
– Insulin strongly suppresses IGFBP-1 production in the liver.
– Seen in metabolic syndrome, early type 2 diabetes, and high-carb states.

High GH / IGF-1 states (excess exogenous GH, acromegaly) may lower IGFBP-1 indirectly by increasing insulin.

Recent feeding / postprandial state during blood draw.

Possible androgen excess (since androgens may suppress IGFBP-1).

Yeah planning on that. Opti asked me to show baseline GH levels. So didn't do the 90 min IM 10iu bolus to show my true level.

 

[Catteni]

If your purposes are to see if the gold tops are “good” then do what @Geardad did and order the GH test and 90 mins before your blood is drawn administer 10 iu…. Or send a vial to Jano for analysis… or both.

If you want to see how it affects your IGF, then run the 6 iu/day for at least 6 weeks and have the IGF test run. But like @Sector already pointed out, several OTHER things affect that.

If you ever listen to Dr Todd Lee on his Anabolic University Podcast he goes into great detail for his protocol. It’s a good overview, whether you follow his actual protocol or not. He has an interesting step-by-step process for dialing in your testosterone, then your estrogen, then your HGH, then whether to run Masteron or not as an additional androgen. Look for “Anabolic University: Find the best dose for YOU Testosterone and Growth Hormone”. 30 mins long.

Started listening to him after your recs in my podcast thread. Will check out this particular episode. I trust his Jano testing so wont send off. But will do the bolus 10iu GH serum test. Ordered IGF-1 and GH test today and will do next week.

Doing the 6 week plan still for on-therapy labs to show efficacy.

Thanks guys for helping me dial in. Appreciate the help!

 

[Catteni]

If your purposes are to see if the gold tops are “good” then do what @Geardad did and order the GH test and 90 mins before your blood is drawn administer 10 iu…. Or send a vial to Jano for analysis… or both.

If you want to see how it affects your IGF, then run the 6 iu/day for at least 6 weeks and have the IGF test run. But like @Sector already pointed out, several OTHER things affect that.

If you ever listen to Dr Todd Lee on his Anabolic University Podcast he goes into great detail for his protocol. It’s a good overview, whether you follow his actual protocol or not. He has an interesting step-by-step process for dialing in your testosterone, then your estrogen, then your HGH, then whether to run Masteron or not as an additional androgen. Look for “Anabolic University: Find the best dose for YOU Testosterone and Growth Hormone”. 30 mins long.

Really good video.

Going to add DHT, ApoB, Cystatin C to labs.

Identify my target E2.

Try daily test dosing with labs and tie it all in with most efficient dose with less total test.

With that being said, makes me want to run Prop over E or C. Thoughts?

 

[workout1234]

If your purposes are to see if the gold tops are “good” then do what @Geardad did and order the GH test and 90 mins before your blood is drawn administer 10 iu…. Or send a vial to Jano for analysis… or both.

If you want to see how it affects your IGF, then run the 6 iu/day for at least 6 weeks and have the IGF test run. But like @Sector already pointed out, several OTHER things affect that.

If you ever listen to Dr Todd Lee on his Anabolic University Podcast he goes into great detail for his protocol. It’s a good overview, whether you follow his actual protocol or not. He has an interesting step-by-step process for dialing in your testosterone, then your estrogen, then your HGH, then whether to run Masteron or not as an additional androgen. Look for “Anabolic University: Find the best dose for YOU Testosterone and Growth Hormone”. 30 mins long.

Just watched the video. Has me rethinking a few things lol. Going to try his approach after this cycle to reestablish my baseline and may switch to test p and mast p going forward. He wasn't clear if the daily test dosing needs to be a short ester or just daily small dosing is the key, even if using longer esters?

 

[Catteni]

Just watched the video. Has me rethinking a few things lol. Going to try his approach after this cycle to reestablish my baseline and may switch to test p and mast p going forward. He wasn't clear if the daily test dosing needs to be a short ester or just daily small dosing is the key, even if using longer esters?

He did say E and P were still saw tooth and C was the smoothest. But I was thinking the same as you.

Going to do 70mg ED weeks 12–16 of my 500mg and do labs to compare. Instead of Mon/Thurs.

And off cycle TRT+ figure out my most effective dose, target e2, and diminishing return GH point.

 

[AlexDavis43]

Try daily test dosing with labs and tie it all in with most efficient dose with less total test.

With that being said, makes me want to run Prop over E or C. Thoughts?

With daily dosing, it 100% doesn't matter if you choose Prop, E, C, sustanon, Test U, etc

The issue is at the other end of the spectrum, people trying to reduce injection frequency. That's when ester & half-life matter.

 

[BBBG]

Just watched the video. Has me rethinking a few things lol. Going to try his approach after this cycle to reestablish my baseline and may switch to test p and mast p going forward. He wasn't clear if the daily test dosing needs to be a short ester or just daily small dosing is the key, even if using longer esters?

It’s daily long ester. No need to switch to short.

 

[workout1234]

Makes sense. I imagine the same thing applies to all compounds? Meaning if you split things like deca or EQ into daily doses instead of 2/3 times a week you'll get fewer side effects and better bloodwork, etc...?

 

[Catteni]

With daily dosing, it 100% doesn't matter if you choose Prop, E, C, sustanon, Test U, etc

The issue is at the other end of the spectrum, people trying to reduce injection frequency. That's when ester & half-life matter.

I did like twice weekly. But now want to see what daily injections are like for levels, sides, etc.

 

[Sector]

I don’t think there’s really a difference in results with long esters ED, or at best maybe marginal (negligible) differences. 3x a week is more than enough for long esters. I usually do Monday/wednesday/Friday for convenience

Matters more with short esters but still I don’t think there’s really some secret gains benefit to this.

 

[Catteni]

I don’t think there’s really a difference in results with long esters ED, or at best maybe marginal (negligible) differences. 3x a week is more than enough for long esters. I usually do Monday/wednesday/Friday for convenience

Matters more with short esters but still I don’t think there’s really some secret gains benefit to this.

I would rather do M/W/F than ED.