Underwhelmed by turinabol @ 40mg

[Septicanon]

I’m on week 3 of tbol (also running 500mg test). I’ve been on a mini cut since 8 days ago at a -600 deficit using albuterol and I’ve lost ~3kg and a few cm off my waist/mm using skin caliper since I started (granted 80% of this is water). A friend of mine suggested a two week mini cut might be in place since I intend to bulk through the summer and I have been bulking since November, leaving me in the high %s atm. However, my strength has gone to shit completely; I think it’s safe to say we’re talking about at least a 25% decrease. Worst is the psychlogical aspect- lifts that felt manageable on 4500 kcal leave are impossible to do, and this is pretty demoralizing bearing in mind this is week 1 of a cut! I’ve decided to slowly ramp up calories and end it. Was I mistaken in thinking tbol would save my strength, or am I not dosing it high enough?

 

[Septicanon]

Any ideas? At week 4 now and even though I’ve gone back to a bulk, tbol is doing noting. No added weight, no added strength, nothing at all. I might as well be eating tic tacs.

 

[DNPstoney]

Septicanon" pid='15479' dateline='1527956901:

Any ideas? At week 4 now and even though I’ve gone back to a bulk, tbol is doing noting. No added weight, no added strength, nothing at all. I might as well be eating tic tacs.

What is your training plan?

You are already running 500mg/week of Test. You should be adding weight and strength easily w/o the Tbol.

Tbol is generally considered very mild and dry. You won’t see the drastic changes that wet substances (such as dbol) cause, or the significant gains that the more harsh substances (such as Tren/sdrol) cause.

If you strength went to shit on a 600 calorie deficit it is because either:
a. you are at a much larger deficit than 600 calories, and you are either miscalculating your TDEE or your caloric intake
b. the albuterol had a significant effect on your respiratory system and your not able to efficient move as much weight around
c. mental issues with cutting and not pushing yourself

Overall, the Tbol is very mild and isn’t going to do magic things to you on a cut, but if you are losing 25% strength in the first week, you are doing something wrong and it isn’t the Tbol.

Edit: read your post about your routine. When you say 25% strength decrease, are you talking about the weight going down by 25% or you not being able to complete your full sets? Also, your routine is going to be a pretty shit indicator of strength. All you exercises are 12+ reps, which is getting into the endurance zone rather than strength, and will definately be affected by albuterol and a caloric deficit.

 

[Septicanon]

DNPstoney" pid='15484' dateline='1527961874:

Septicanon" pid='15479' dateline='1527956901:

Any ideas? At week 4 now and even though I’ve gone back to a bulk, tbol is doing noting. No added weight, no added strength, nothing at all. I might as well be eating tic tacs.

What is your training plan?

You are already running 500mg/week of Test. You should be adding weight and strength easily w/o the Tbol.

Tbol is generally considered very mild and dry. You won’t see the drastic changes that wet substances (such as dbol) cause, or the significant gains that the more harsh substances (such as Tren/sdrol) cause.

If you strength went to shit on a 600 calorie deficit it is because either:
a. you are at a much larger deficit than 600 calories, and you are either miscalculating your TDEE or your caloric intake
b. the albuterol had a significant effect on your respiratory system and your not able to efficient move as much weight around
c. mental issues with cutting and not pushing yourself

Overall, the Tbol is very mild and isn’t going to do magic things to you on a cut, but if you are losing 25% strength in the first week, you are doing something wrong and it isn’t the Tbol.

Edit: read your post about your routine. When you say 25% strength decrease, are you talking about the weight going down by 25% or you not being able to complete your full sets? Also, your routine is going to be a pretty shit indicator of strength. All you exercises are 12+ reps, which is getting into the endurance zone rather than strength, and will definately be affected by albuterol and a caloric deficit.

Hello, thanks for your reply. re: albuterol, I don’t think I agree with you- as an asthmatic, albuterol greatly helps me breathe and with my endurance. I can see of no circumstnaces under which a beta agonist would impair the respiratory system, regardless.

re: routine, you’re right, but I am just one week one of this routine. I was doing a powerlifting focused program before and I can indeed say my strength went to shit.

What’s strange is that even though I have now ended the cut and am slowly ramping calories back up, I still see no changes that I cannot attribute to increased water retention due to more carbs.

Like I say I wasn’t even looking for physical changes- just the ability to perhaps maintain weight while cutting fat, or the ability to maintain strength at a moderate caloric deficit. It seems even my mild expectations have not been met, however.

 

[Joehi2470]

Hey man, I’m cutting as well… the best advice I could give is if your cutting and are expecting to maintain strength on a powerlifting type routine UP THE DOSE! test should be at 750mg and tbol at a high dose too. Also cut back on volume when cutting, it takes longer to recover.

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I am trying tbol soon, I cut on 750mg of sustanon and 75mg of var. squat went up, deadlift went up, bench went up, overall strength went up, and fat got lost.

 

[Septicanon]

Joehi2470" pid='15510' dateline='1527988198:

Hey man, I’m cutting as well… the best advice I could give is if your cutting and are expecting to maintain strength on a powerlifting type routine UP THE DOSE! test should be at 750mg and tbol at a high dose too. Also cut back on volume when cutting, it takes longer to recover.

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I am trying tbol soon, I cut on 750mg of sustanon and 75mg of var. squat went up, deadlift went up, bench went up, overall strength went up, and fat got lost.

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Hi, your post makes sense and its always something I’ve wondered- surely dose of anabolics should go up under caloric restriction? Lowering volume AND lowering drugs AND lowering kcal seems like a surefire way of losing muscle, in my humble opinion.

 

[Thewhyoffry99]

Tbol is mild. I’m running it now and I did notice a big difference at 60mg vs anything lower.

 

[Pharmahgh]

Septicanon" pid='14862' dateline='1527425744:

I’m on week 3 of tbol (also running 500mg test). I’ve been on a mini cut since 8 days ago at a -600 deficit using albuterol and I’ve lost ~3kg and a few cm off my waist/mm using skin caliper since I started (granted 80% of this is water). A friend of mine suggested a two week mini cut might be in place since I intend to bulk through the summer and I have been bulking since November, leaving me in the high %s atm. However, my strength has gone to shit completely; I think it’s safe to say we’re talking about at least a 25% decrease. Worst is the psychlogical aspect- lifts that felt manageable on 4500 kcal leave are impossible to do, and this is pretty demoralizing bearing in mind this is week 1 of a cut! I’ve decided to slowly ramp up calories and end it. Was I mistaken in thinking tbol would save my strength, or am I not dosing it high enough?

Hey brother just my 2 Cents. Tbol is not going to cut it preserving your strength during a caloric deficit. Generally when Im in prep I use halo for this. It is extremely liver toxic and I can only use it for 4 weeks but I find var or winny to be a good substitute for preserving my strength.
There is a possibility you could have become a little insulin resistant if you were running high carbs on your bulk before you started cutting.

I run small cut cycles during the year to re sensitize my insulin receptors. I also come off all gear for a while as well, accept for a TRT dose of test. This primes my body for growth, so when I do start to bulk and push things I grow like crazy and my recovery time is insane.

you have been bulking for 6 months and running hi doses of androgens,I assume for this time. The probability of you being insulin resistant is pretty good. Get a glucose meter ($10) check your fasted glucose levels if they are up in the 90 100 range no good. Start 1000mg berberine ed, cycle your carbs, but lower them down stay on your mini cut for 3-4 weeks and come off your gear for 4 weeks just cruise on TRT. This will set everything for growth again. Dont worry about strength or staying full and looking flat its not important right now. Whats most important Is priming your body for growth. Watch and see the gains you make when you start to push again. size and strength come right back. its easy like filling up a flat tire.

 

[flo]

Tbol is certainly mild, and in my experience it takes a little bit longer to kick than most orals. The water retention most likely isn’t from carbs but estrogen conversion from the 500mg of test. Are you using an ai?

Even at the low doses your running, I don’t think its unreasonable to for you to maintain your strength this early in a cutting phase. The cause could be bunk gear, but I don’t think you should be losing 25% of your lifts in 8 days even if you’re natty. I think you are grossly overestimating your cals, and are extremely depleted like was mentioned above.

 

[Septicanon]

Pharmahgh" pid='15548' dateline='1528042345:

Septicanon" pid='14862' dateline='1527425744:

I’m on week 3 of tbol (also running 500mg test). I’ve been on a mini cut since 8 days ago at a -600 deficit using albuterol and I’ve lost ~3kg and a few cm off my waist/mm using skin caliper since I started (granted 80% of this is water). A friend of mine suggested a two week mini cut might be in place since I intend to bulk through the summer and I have been bulking since November, leaving me in the high %s atm. However, my strength has gone to shit completely; I think it’s safe to say we’re talking about at least a 25% decrease. Worst is the psychlogical aspect- lifts that felt manageable on 4500 kcal leave are impossible to do, and this is pretty demoralizing bearing in mind this is week 1 of a cut! I’ve decided to slowly ramp up calories and end it. Was I mistaken in thinking tbol would save my strength, or am I not dosing it high enough?

Hey brother just my 2 Cents. Tbol is not going to cut it preserving your strength during a caloric deficit. Generally when Im in prep I use halo for this. It is extremely liver toxic and I can only use it for 4 weeks but I find var or winny to be a good substitute for preserving my strength.
There is a possibility you could have become a little insulin resistant if you were running high carbs on your bulk before you started cutting.

I run small cut cycles during the year to re sensitize my insulin receptors. I also come off all gear for a while as well, accept for a TRT dose of test. This primes my body for growth, so when I do start to bulk and push things I grow like crazy and my recovery time is insane.

you have been bulking for 6 months and running hi doses of androgens,I assume for this time. The probability of you being insulin resistant is pretty good. Get a glucose meter ($10) check your fasted glucose levels if they are up in the 90 100 range no good. Start 1000mg berberine ed, cycle your carbs, but lower them down stay on your mini cut for 3-4 weeks and come off your gear for 4 weeks just cruise on TRT. This will set everything for growth again. Dont worry about strength or staying full and looking flat its not important right now. Whats most important Is priming your body for growth. Watch and see the gains you make when you start to push again. size and strength come right back. its easy like filling up a flat tire.

Hey, thanks for your reply. I think we have different units, but I usually test 4.6-4.7nmol/L. (done a conversion, this comes out at 84.6). However I have done both H1Ac testing and fasted blood glucose testing and I always come back below range even, so I would assume my insulin sensitivity is high? Therefore, is your advice still relevant if I am sensitive to insulin, or more geared towards a (presumed) insulin resistance? I read about berberine back in the day but read it has negative effects on the mTOR pathway (much like metformin). So I just take 250mg r-ALA day and night.

That being said, gains have plateaud though. Bodyweight especially. Would you still suggest coming off gear for 4 weeks? I’m running 500mg test E/C and 50mg tbol atm, and entering week 7 of boldenone 600mg.

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flo" pid='15549' dateline='1528042445:

Tbol is certainly mild, and in my experience it takes a little bit longer to kick than most orals. The water retention most likely isn’t from carbs but estrogen conversion from the 500mg of test. Are you using an ai?

Even at the low doses your running, I don’t think its unreasonable to for you to maintain your strength this early in a cutting phase. The cause could be bunk gear, but I don’t think you should be losing 25% of your lifts in 8 days even if you’re natty. I think you are grossly overestimating your cals, and are extremely depleted like was mentioned above.

Hey mate, nah I doubt it. I’ve been counting calories for a very long time, everything gets weighed on a weighing scale and logged into MFP. My gear is from the pharmacy (except tbol), and my boldenone is lab tested, so no chance of it being bunk. I was running 0.75 adex EOD but now that the boldenone has kicked in I’ve managed to reduce it to 0.5, funnily enough.

 

[flo]

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flo" pid='15549' dateline='1528042445:

Tbol is certainly mild, and in my experience it takes a little bit longer to kick than most orals. The water retention most likely isn’t from carbs but estrogen conversion from the 500mg of test. Are you using an ai?

Even at the low doses your running, I don’t think its unreasonable to for you to maintain your strength this early in a cutting phase. The cause could be bunk gear, but I don’t think you should be losing 25% of your lifts in 8 days even if you’re natty. I think you are grossly overestimating your cals, and are extremely depleted like was mentioned above.

Hey mate, nah I doubt it. I’ve been counting calories for a very long time, everything gets weighed on a weighing scale and logged into MFP. My gear is from the pharmacy (except tbol), and my boldenone is lab tested, so no chance of it being bunk. I was running 0.75 adex EOD but now that the boldenone has kicked in I’ve managed to reduce it to 0.5, funnily enough.
[/quote]

I hear ya bro. That’s gotta be frustrating. I’m new to this game, so t know what else to tell ya.

Are you in canada? Asking because of how you you measure test in nmol/L.

 

[Brochacho_Prime]

flo" pid='15624' dateline='1528077728:

now that the boldenone has kicked in I’ve managed to reduce it to 0.5, funnily enough.

Bold “anecdotally” (which I say because this is backed by bloods and personal experience but afaik nothing studied in science on humans) reduces and/or eliminates some people’s need for AI. Personally, on a gram of bold cyp I can run 600mg Test with no AI and be in range.