Blood work results - question

[TRT37BEEF]

Hoping I can get some insight to my recent labs.

I am currently taking:
- 110mg of Test C every 4 days
- 40mg of Anavar a day (20mg in AM and 20mg in late afternoon)
- 4ius HGH (2ius at wake up and 2ius prior to bed)
- I also take 125mcg of Synthroid for my hypothyroidism.

The labs were done fasted and on the same day as my TRT injection, but prior to taking my injection. I had not taken the Anavar for the day yet either.







Everything else in the labs were normal, but here is the rest if you want to look.

https://imgur.com/a/KH0z1Yo

 

[FrancoC]

E2 is high, I’d get that in range. Elevated E2 is carcinogenic

Lipids take a hit when on orals but that’s normal and they’ll be fine once you stop the anavar.

 

[TRT37BEEF]

E2 is high, I’d get that in range. Elevated E2 is carcinogenic

Lipids take a hit when on orals but that’s normal and they’ll be fine once you stop the anavar.

I have anastrozole on hand. How much and how often would you recommend?

 

[TRT37BEEF]

I just popped .5mg, thinking of doing .25 e2 or e3 days afterwards and then getting bloods done again in 2 weeks to re-test.

 

[FrancoC]

I have anastrozole on hand. How much and how often would you recommend?

That’s where it gets tricky since it’s all individually based. I’m of the rule of thumb to start low and then increase if necessary. Try .25mg EOD and get bloods after 4 weeks to see if that’s the spot. Should you feel low E2 symptoms change it to E3D

 

[Thrasymachus]

E2 is high, I’d get that in range. Elevated E2 is carcinogenic

Lipids take a hit when on orals but that’s normal and they’ll be fine once you stop the anavar.

I would be interested in a in depth conversation about AI use and elevated E2 being carcinogenic, since the word Carcninoginc means it causes cancer and not just that it might accelerate the growth of cancer.

We know exogenous T can accelerate the growth of prostate cancer, but it isn't known to cause cancer.

Of course this is a complex issue so I'd love to learn more about elevated E2 causing cancer as I despise using AI and prefer to keep body fat as low as possible and instead use Mast as a form of drying out to keep anabolics onboard without having to resort to AI use, that said my E2 is elevated on a regular basis, I find that I actually feel stronger in the gym when E2 is high. I've very sensitive to AI and Serms as I feel like dog shit when I'm on them.

 

[FrancoC]

I would be interested in a in depth conversation about AI use and elevated E2 being carcinogenic, since the word Carcninoginc means it causes cancer and not just that it might accelerate the growth of cancer.

We know exogenous T can accelerate the growth of prostate cancer, but it isn't known to cause cancer.

Of course this is a complex issue so I'd love to learn more about elevated E2 causing cancer as I despise using AI and prefer to keep body fat as low as possible and instead use Mast as a form of drying out to keep anabolics onboard without having to resort to AI use, that said my E2 is elevated on a regular basis, I find that I actually feel stronger in the gym when E2 is high. I've very sensitive to AI and Serms as I feel like dog shit when I'm on them.

No, you’re doing it right by eliminating AIs to maintain E2 but it really should be kept within range. I myself am going to start implementing Primo as my tool to lower E2 instead of relying on the AI. There’s a lot of info about the dangers of high E2, whenever I get settled I’ll pull up the info on its carcinogenic tendency. Vigorous Steve has a good in depth video on it on YouTube.

 

[TRT37BEEF]

How does Primo and Mast lower E2 differently than an AI? Is that something I should consider instead?

 

[Thrasymachus]

How does Primo and Mast lower E2 differently than an AI? Is that something I should consider instead?

We know DHT doesn't covert to E2. However the way it interferes with aromatization or inhibits E2 isn't something I can't find much info on. We know that it originally was tried in patients with breast cancer, but DHT is powerful stuff as far as masculinization for females so it was discontinued as a drug for women.

I do know that it seems to counter the sides you see when you have high E2, edema, bloating, puffy look.

Only downside of mast is prostate growth, slight elevation in blood pressure.

The real difference for me is that while I'm on mast I feel fantastic mentally, and when I'm on AI I feel like crap, like I don't even want to get out of bed, it zaps my motivation.

 

[TRT37BEEF]

We know DHT doesn't covert to E2. However the way it interferes with aromatization or inhibits E2 isn't something I can't find much info on. We know that it originally was tried in patients with breast cancer, but DHT is powerful stuff as far as masculinization for females so it was discontinued as a drug for women.

I do know that it seems to counter the sides you see when you have high E2, edema, bloating, puffy look.

Only downside of mast is prostate growth, slight elevation in blood pressure.

The real difference for me is that while I'm on mast I feel fantastic mentally, and when I'm on AI I feel like crap, like I don't even want to get out of bed, it zaps my motivation.

Is that something you would be on year round with a cruise, or only when "blasting"?

 

[Thrasymachus]

Is that something you would be on year round with a cruise, or only when "blasting"?

Mast cycles for me can last no longer than 8 weeks using Mast prop, which is the only ester that hits me the way I want. After that something weird happens, my libido is still high, but my pecker turns into a piece of wood with no feeling and my ejaculations are basically spitting mist. Coming off for 12 weeks gets rid of this problem and then you can go back on.

As for any other E2 control. No I don't use it because I never feel good with any AI or SERM. What I found is more frequent injections with a shorter ester mix that I use which is 30% Ace and 70% Cyp, 3 times a week. It keeps me topped off, but it also keeps me from taking too much that spills over into problems with bloat or edema.

Obviously staying as lean as possible will cut down on problems of elevated E2, which in my case requires calorie restriction.

 

[Luxferro]

E2 is so weird.

I know people will say that if you T is high enough, the E2 being high won’t matter as much but in my experience this isn’t true.

I was 2 weeks into a 450 mg Test C cycle with 1000 IU HCG per week and had a total T of 3100 and E2 of 112 at peak. Now, you might look at the ratio and think it’s fine but I absolutely had high E2 sides (soft erections, sleep issues, anxiety). Taking Aromasin and lowering the dose fixed the issue for me. Interestingly, I never had any gyno or nipple sensitivity issues.

I really feel like no one should have their E2 higher than 50 pg/mL regardless of T levels.

 

[Luxferro]

I honestly feel like managing E2 is the most difficult part of any cycle. BTW I don’t know why you’re so against AI’s. While anastrozole will worsen your lipids, Aromasin will not.

 

[TRT37BEEF]

I honestly feel like managing E2 is the most difficult part of any cycle. BTW I don’t know why you’re so against AI’s. While anastrozole will worsen your lipids, Aromasin will not.

From a management of E2 perspective, how is Anastrozole and Aromasin different? I currently have 1mg tabs of Anastrozole. I am breaking them into 4s and taking 1 e2d.

 

[TRT37BEEF]

@Luxferro - I just ordered some Aromasin to replace my Anastrozole. Can you help me with dosage and timing? Currently thinking of 12.5mg on each pin (E4D), and get blood work in 2 weeks to make adjustments.

 

[Luxferro]

1 mg anastrozole generally = 25 mg aromasin

Aromasin will keep your E2 suppressed for roughly 4 days. Refer to this graph.

12.5 mg every pin sounds great!

You can increase absorption of Aromasin by taking it with fat.

 

[Luxferro]

I’m sorry. I just reread and realized you pin every 4 days. Personally, I would do 12.5 mg 3x per week (like Monday/Wednesday/Friday) since the half life of Aromasin is only like 9 hours and the E2 suppression after 48 hours is only around 30%.

You can also pin more frequently and that might reduce E2 as well, allowing you to reduce AI need.

I wouldn’t be too scared of overdoing the Aromasin. It has a greater margin of error than arimidex and won’t cause any rebound. If you overdose on Aromasin you’ll likely feel better in a couple days.

 

[Thrasymachus]

I honestly feel like managing E2 is the most difficult part of any cycle. BTW I don’t know why you’re so against AI’s. While anastrozole will worsen your lipids, Aromasin will not.

There is no drug that you can take that doesn't start off a cascade of unintended effects in the body and mind.

My main interests when it comes to harm reduction has been the brain, heart, kidneys, liver, hct, bones.

Long term AI use has questions that need to be answered. We have lots of data for women, but we need long term studies for men.

 

[Luxferro]

There is no drug that you can take that doesn't start off a cascade of unintended effects in the body and mind.

My main interests when it comes to harm reduction has been the brain, heart, kidneys, liver, hct, bones.

Long term AI use has questions that need to be answered. We have lots of data for women, but we need long term studies for men.

Of course this is true, but what you must realize is that the long term negative repercussions of AI use are more so attributed to chronically crashed E2 levels in women with estrogen-positive breast cancer.

A typically regiment for these women is 1 mg of arimidex every day for years until their Breast cancer is resolved.

Every single substance you ingest - if taken to an extreme - will harm your physiology. Even drinking too much water can deplete your electrolyte levels to the point of cardiac failure.

This does not mean that AI’s don’t have intelligent use cases. If one uses a moderate dose of Aromasin, it won’t hurt your blood lipids and could actually be healthier for you than letting your E2 sit astronomically high.

We know from many studies that having high estrogen levels can raise water retention/blood pressure, cause erectile dysfunction and irritability, accelerate the growth of various tumors, and adversely affect spermatogenesis in men. You want your E2 not too high, not too low.

If it’s a choice of taking an AI or not to keep E2 in a favorable range, I believe the healthier decision (if one insists on using anabolics) is to use the AI. Some guys alternatively use DHT derivatives to lower E2 but that comes with more side effects IMO (Like left ventricular hypertrophy, further suppression of HPTA/fertility, hair loss, etc.)

 

[Thrasymachus]

Of course this is true, but what you must realize is that the long term negative repercussions of AI use are more so attributed to chronically crashed E2 levels in women with estrogen-positive breast cancer.

If it’s a choice of taking an AI or not to keep E2 in a favorable range, I believe the healthier decision (if one insists on using anabolics) is to use the AI. Some guys alternatively use DHT derivatives to lower E2 but that comes with more side effects IMO (Like left ventricular hypertrophy, further suppression of HPTA/fertility, hair loss, etc.)

I agree female studies are flawed because crashed E2 is what I would consider a sadistic long term treatment plan for women as it sets off a set of health problems that are too long to list, just so they can technically survive breast cancer as their quality of life nose dives.

Women studies are obviously too extreme to use for anything other than an indictment against the cancer treatment industry that is obsessed with long term care for longer term profits.

As for men, of course you don't want high E2, it obviously isn't optimal for men and occasional use of moderate AI to control times when you know E2 is gonna elevate and cause side effects would be prudent.

And I'll agree DHT derivatives do come with risks and I have had those things happen to me.....poor lipids, prostate growth(getting up 3 times a night to go to the bathroom), elevated blood pressure, faster rise in hct.

I guess do what you have to do, Aromasin was my choice when I was using AI as it had the least known side effect profile. That said even lower doses for me made me feel like crap mentally, I felt flat in the gym, lost motivation. I find there are lots of ancillaries that I can't take without sides that I don't want to deal with.

For me it goes back to the more frequent doses to keep peaks low to prevent spill over that ends up as too high E2.