Deca or Tren E for "Bulking"

[falseprophet09]

From January to June 14 of this year, I ran test cyp 200mg and tren E 200mg, completely recomping my body, from 260lb dad-bod to 230lbs prob 13% bf, over a six-month period. Everyone advised me, including John Meadows (RIP) not to run Tren more than 8-12 weeks, but I figured if I’m running such a low dose, I should be able to run double what people typically do. I was right.

I took about a month off, then jumped on Test Cyp 480, and Primo 660; this cycle which I’m currently on that I brewed, has about a month left. I got my bloodwork last week, and everything was basically normal, aside from elevated AST at 51, which goes to show how safe Primo really is.

So, even being on tren E for half a year, my body is fine. Granted it was a low dose, but I’m clearly one of those lucky people.

Being that I’m on TRT for life, I just blast and cruise; I don’t have to worry about PCT, and I can handle the harshest injectable out there.

I have 10grams (10,000mg) of Test Cyp, Deca and Tren E raws remaining; each will last me 25 weeks at 400mg, or 16 weeks at 600mg. Unfortunately, my cyp raws gave me shitty labs, but I’m hoping these other raws are good to go; if not, I’d have to double everything.

My plan was to brew Deca for my next cycle for the “bulk” phase, and save the Tren E for next year during my “cut.” I put both in quotations because really, I do the whole Doucette “maingaining” thing, where I only slightly manipulate calories rather than gorge like a fat ass; basically, I’m either slightly over or below maintenance during these phases. Thing is, I haven’t taken regular Nandrolone in over 10 years, but I did run NPP about 3 years ago, and I didn’t notice any sides at all. I read from posts from all different forums about Deca bloating, but forum vets saying that’s up to diet and controlling estrogen, and controlling prolactin to avoid deca dick.

The reason why I’m hesitant to run Deca, is because of the whole “wet gains” thing, and after I just recomped my body to being lean, I’m not trying to get watery. The Primo is so wonderful, I’ve gained ZERO water retention, even from doubling my test. Even if my Cyp raws suck, the Primo is definitely working.

I, and I’m sure all of us, are fans of “dry gains,” but what the posts I’m reading seem to imply, is that “wet gains” is misnomer, since LBM does include water retention within muscle, and bloating will come from being a fat ass on your diet.

On Tren E I don’t get any libido issues; in fact, I become a sex freak. Then again, haven’t done 400mg of Tren E in years.

So my question is, since I’m one of the lucky ones who doesn’t get destroyed by Tren, should I just forget the Deca and go with the Tren E at 400mg, or should I stick to my original plan, being that I haven’t really done any “hard” cycles.

I kind of want to run Deca, to see how I’d look on it now with over a decade of new experience with bodybuilding, and since I have it, but then again, I rather not waste time if Tren E would be more suitable for me since I handle it and seem to response to it very well.

I know some people run BOTH, which I could easily do by my mixing the brew together, perhaps make a blend of 200/200 Deca/Tren?

I know everyone reacts differently, which is why I explained how I react to things, so I’m basically asking:

“If you were me, what would you do?”

Thanks gents.

 

[system]

Well if your lean and 230. How much bigger do you want to get? I would just use tren and stay lean while adding muscle… get to 240 lean? Lol… only a dream for me

 

[falseprophet09]

@nswole1 I still don’t think I’m lean enough…

Here’s a pic when I was in260 at like 90% bf lol, and now, which IDK if it is 13%, but I’m guessing. Maybe 15%

Most of my fat is on my lower back and sides.

https://ibb.co/G7JHgX7

 

[system]

@falseprophet09 definitely stick with tren. You look good. But you got enough body fat that you don’t want to bloat up on deca. Just do the tren and get huge and shredded

 

[PersianBody19]

@falseprophet09 you look like your had a successful transition from that 200mg test c and 200mg tren e

I was going to start a similar cycle for my upcoming lean bulk in the next few 2-3 weeks. I was planning to take it for 10 weeks only because 2 weeks after that I would be traveling for work ( so I cant take it as long as you have). I was planning to take 300mg test c and 250mg tren e weekly for 10 weeks

some questions since your experience with that cycle:

1. Did you get any tren sides on that relatively low dose? (sweats)
2. was the tren vascularity, hunger, tightness noticeable?
3. Any pip at all (although you still homebrew)?
4. any advice for this of cycle?

 

[falseprophet09]

@nswole1 well, lets hope these other raws don’s suck like the Cyp did lol.

 

[falseprophet09]

PersianBody19 said:

1. Did you get any tren sides on that relatively low dose? (sweats)

Maybe once or twice, depending on how many carbs I ate, but nothing insane like I used to get, waking up in puddles at a higher dosage. A mild trensomnia, easily fixed with some melatonin. I’ve never gone higher than 300 acetate, and 400 Enanthate, in any of my tren experience. Around those dosages, the sweating and insomnia is more, including aggression and irritability. But I’m one of those people who handles tren very well, so I hope you are too lol.

1. was the tren vascularity, hunger, tightness noticeable?

No, because I was still too fat to notice. I took my diet and transition VERY VERY SLOW. There was times I was stuck on a weight for a month, and did diet breaks. I did this on purpose because I wanted this to be a permanent transition, rather than a sudden one that risks a rebound. If I were to take tren now, I’d certainly notice all of those things because I’m much leaner, but hunger is not a side I get from Tren at any dose.

1. Any pip at all (although you still homebrew)?

The gear I took was from a UGL my buddy got for me, not from this board; there was no PIP. My friend actually has his own lab, and he says most PIP comes from the laziness of a labs, that instead filtering gear, they just throw tons of BA BB to kill anything inside of it.

1. any advice for this of cycle?

I mean, my transition was literally 6 months long; I didn’t rush anything so I didn’t need caber or anything to combat sides that one would expect. I just took my stuff and hit the gym hard and my body changed. I really feel that, those of use who do not compete, we shouldn’t be pushing deadlines on our transformations, and to take our time so they become cemented when our metabolism adapts and creates a new set point.

 

[PersianBody19]

@falseprophet09

I apprecitae your in-depth reply brotha, really helped

 

[falseprophet09]

No problem. Hoping more jump in here and let me know what they think lol

 

[Forthewin1123]

I’m not one to recommend tren to regulars even though we are far more committed then regulars…non competition may be better wording… it worked for you… you definitely have been in shape before this though… correct? And that helps a recomp big time…
Me personally get to many mental sides from tren…in a perfect world I’d say cruise and drop 5-10 pounds then I’d use a test npp… or dhb… little dryer for me the deca…some eq … my favorite is test npp eq and sdrol finisher… I get some water but managing e2 and salt intake… also 1.5 gallon water makes a big difference summer time this is easy to drink…winter it’s alot harder.

Hard to argue you not using tren with good vlood work and min sides at a low but still useful/effective dose. They say there can be permanent mental sides from tren . Maybe not at that dose idk worth noting. Tren is so good and putting nutrients in the right places… maybe using it at low dose like you are and add npp or dhb for more growth… slight surplus …may be great… try to get a little bit of each compounds best attributes…

I didn’t mean to ramble and run on… typing thoughts as I was going… time for some sleep… sleep is as anabolic as food

 

[falseprophet09]

@Forthewin1123

Thanks for your feedback. I was watching videos are Nandrolone isn’t good for the heart nor veins, I wonder if NPP is safer, being it doesn’t linger around long?

 

[Forthewin1123]

@falseprophet09 probably not… there’s some cost to all of this…none of it comes for free…
I can tell you nandrolone is the most used compound for off-season growing… u wish we had.more medical research on these side effects…

 

[effswithtren]

I don’t doubt that a lot of anabolics have similar negative health connotations. You only see this being said about nandrolone because it’s one of the ones with extensive human medical research. I’d bet tren is considerably worse. Which is fine, since for the great majority of lifters it’s also considerably inferior for mass building.

 

[falseprophet09]

@effswithtren

Yea I don’t doubt the toxicity of tren; I am just mr. Dry gains now and I don’t want to just bloat up, but apparently it isn’t that bad. Then again, my PPL deca turned into fucking crack crystal, so Idk if I even want to take it lol

 

[zyzzsickkvnt]

ive used oral tren years ago as a prohormone, trenavar dont know how related to real tren it is, always gained alot of strength on it just couldnt get it up.

deca has been great so far, strength going way up every week and feel more focused and alert than usual.

 

[tarv]

Between deca and tren which actually builds more actual lean muscle (Not water)? Seems everybody considers deca to be the best for size but tren has a higher anabolic rating, so shouldn’t it build more muscle?

 

[falseprophet09]

From what I understand, Deca builds more “wet” gains, via intermuscular water retention which is considered LBM, whereas Tren is more of a recomp “dry gains” with no aromatization.

 

[effswithtren]

@tarv Anabolic ratings don’t mean dick otherwise halo would be the king of bulkers.

 

[Astrartes]

falseprophet09 said:

PersianBody19 said:

I mean, my transition was literally 6 months long; I didn’t rush anything so I didn’t need caber or anything to combat sides that one would expect. I just took my stuff and hit the gym hard and my body changed. I really feel that, those of use who do not compete, we shouldn’t be pushing deadlines on our transformations, and to take our time so they become cemented when our metabolism adapts and creates a new set point.

^ This I agree with 100%

 

[chimpanzee19]

Deca has negative effects on the heart/vascular system due to a lack of estrogen , however this isn’t going to be as prevalent an issue when running a high enough dose or stacking with other compounds that more easily fulfill the conversion to estrogen role in your body.

Tren is far worse for you.

Best recommendation would be to keep low/no test and run deca or a combination of deca + tren. Typically, I run 25-50mgs test with deca under 600mgs and no test with deca at 600mgs+/week, or utilize dbol for estrogen. Deca exacerbates estrogenic/progesterone side effects and, if run with anything that is extremely estrogenic, is going to make you watery/have the usual, famous deca sides. I recommend estrogen to a point still because it’s necessary for health, building muscle, and feeling well. When controlling your estrogen by manipulating your compounds first, you’ll have a much smoother cycle experience and look better than you could’ve imagined.