Estrogen Management

[Kiwi]

Hi all.

Background: Test cycle titration from low-dose to determine where I start to encounter sides and, preferentially, avoid AI use if possible.

Test E 250/week x 6 weeks, currently at 300/week.
Pinning SubQ Daily in attempt to mitigate E2.

E2 rose proportionally with Total Test.
Labs at 250/week showed:
Test at 1250 ng/dL
E2 at 67 pg/mL

Until now, no sides at all, and thus no AI usage.
That said, I have noticed Systolic BP creeping up recently into the mid-high 130s. Would you:

A) Manage BP with ancillaries, not touch E2
B) Reduce to 275/week and monitor
C) Call the experiment done and just initiate Aromasin, consider a worthwhile dose may not be possible without E2 management?

 

[Pooplord420]

If you’re not getting E2 sides from 300/week theres no point in touching an AI. Keeping E2 in the high end of the range will be way more beneficial from a health aspect (and will provide you slightly more anabolism than possibly having it crashed if you over do your AI dose) Have you had bloods done at the dose you’re running now and seen what your E2 is at? As to your concerns about BP management I’d experiment with 5-10mg of Cialis every day and see how much it comes down. If its not enough to get you into that 115-120 systolic range then I’d consider something like Telmisartan

 

[Kiwi]

If you’re not getting E2 sides from 300/week theres no point in touching an AI. Keeping E2 in the high end of the range will be way more beneficial from a health aspect (and will provide you slightly more anabolism than possibly having it crashed if you over do your AI dose) Have you had bloods done at the dose you’re running now and seen what your E2 is at? As to your concerns about BP management I’d experiment with 5-10mg of Cialis every day and see how much it comes down. If its not enough to get you into that 115-120 systolic range then I’d consider something like Telmisartan

Have only been on 300 for 1 week, so no new labs yet.

No edema/mooning or similar to outright suggest excessive water retention, but my BP definitely does not run this high normally. Only side effect thus far outside of the BP is slightly oily skin, but not even enough to cause acne at this point.

Have viagra on hand so will start using it, actually ordered cialis a few days ago to test it as well to see which I respond better to. Looked into Telmisartan via Dash a day or two ago, seems we have similar ideas on how to proceed.

Preferred source for BP/Cholesterol ancillaries?

 

[DHT]

is this a blast or cruise ? it really depends on your goals, also your test response is low.
Even if you dont have acne or gyno, Id be worried about mental sides with your e2 being double reference range overtime you might slip into feeling to feely.

If you want to keep upping your test dosage to see how test affects you, Id start with a small dosage of aromasin a week.
Being that you dont have sides right now is good, but your e2 will raise even more since you upped your dosage 50mg a week,
so with that said you will eventually get side effects and dosing minimally with aromasin once youve already had side effects isnt ideal because you will want those side effects
to go away quickkly which may lead to you messing with your dosage of aromasin too much, beause it takes weeks for estrogen to stabilize from consistent aromasin dosing.

like your e2 is higher than 67 now and will continue to rise, then youll get sides and try to treat them on a too short of a timeline which makes it hard to dial in what your response is via bloodwork if youre always changing things, so my sugguestion is to change 1 thing at a time and change things slightly before they become a problem.
Like Id say drop to 250 and take 6.25mg asin per week, with fat. but your only at 1250 so idk if thats worth it to you if its a blast or what info youre trying to figure out

Like every bloodwork should have a goal, like this one is that you know how you feel on 67 e2 and that 67 e2 makes your BP high and that test dose doesnt bring you up that high out of reference range. From that info you can deduce more info without having to get bloodwork so often.

really depends on what youre trying to do

If you’re not getting E2 sides from 300/week theres no point in touching an AI. Keeping E2 in the high end of the range will be way more beneficial from a health aspect (and will provide you slightly more anabolism than possibly having it crashed if you over do your AI dose) Have you had bloods done at the dose you’re running now and seen what your E2 is at? As to your concerns about BP management I’d experiment with 5-10mg of Cialis every day and see how much it comes down. If its not enough to get you into that 115-120 systolic range then I’d consider something like Telmisartan

Cialis to treat actual hypertension? You think 10mg of cialis has the potential to reduce his systolic by 20 points????

No you take asin to reduce the water retention or you take 10mg lisinopril and see how that goes.

Have only been on 300 for 1 week, so no new labs yet.

No edema/mooning or similar to outright suggest excessive water retention, but my BP definitely does not run this high normally. Only side effect thus far outside of the BP is slightly oily skin, but not even enough to cause acne at this point.

Have viagra on hand so will start using it, actually ordered cialis a few days ago to test it as well to see which I respond better to. Looked into Telmisartan via Dash a day or two ago, seems we have similar ideas on how to proceed.

Preferred source for BP/Cholesterol ancillaries?

youre really going to take medical advice from a guy who joined this forum 2 months ago and his name is POOPLORD420.
hypertension is the top 5 killer in america and you listen to a guy who smokes weed and names himself poop when he tells you to take a pill for erectil dysfunction.

 

[Kiwi]

is this a blast or cruise ? it really depends on your goals, also your test response is low.
Even if you dont have acne or gyno, Id be worried about mental sides with your e2 being double reference range overtime you might slip into feeling to feely.

If you want to keep upping your test dosage to see how test affects you, Id start with a small dosage of aromasin a week.
Being that you dont have sides right now is good, but your e2 will raise even more since you upped your dosage 50mg a week,
so with that said you will eventually get side effects and dosing minimally with aromasin once youve already had side effects isnt ideal because you will want those side effects
to go away quickkly which may lead to you messing with your dosage of aromasin too much, beause it takes weeks for estrogen to stabilize from consistent aromasin dosing.

like your e2 is higher than 67 now and will continue to rise, then youll get sides and try to treat them on a too short of a timeline which makes it hard to dial in what your response is via bloodwork if youre always changing things, so my sugguestion is to change 1 thing at a time and change things slightly before they become a problem.
Like Id say drop to 250 and take 6.25mg asin per week, with fat. but your only at 1250 so idk if thats worth it to you if its a blast or what info youre trying to figure out

Like every bloodwork should have a goal, like this one is that you know how you feel on 67 e2 and that 67 e2 makes your BP high and that test dose doesnt bring you up that high out of reference range. From that info you can deduce more info without having to get bloodwork so often.

really depends on what youre trying to do



Cialis to treat actual hypertension? You think 10mg of cialis has the potential to reduce his systolic by 20 points????

No you take asin to reduce the water retention or you take 10mg lisinopril and see how that goes.


youre really going to take medical advice from a guy who joined this forum 2 months ago and his name is POOPLORD420.
hypertension is the top 5 killer in america and you listen to a guy who smokes weed and names himself poop when he tells you to take a pill for erectil dysfunction.

The goal was to see if I could run a low-dose blast that didn’t require AI intervention, since they have their own drawbacks. Goal was ideally ~1750 total test. Seems I didn’t make it there.
Response appears lower than expected because I’m dosing daily SubQ, so peaks are much lower, but I am still well within acceptable range at 5x.

I’m not trying to treat the BP exclusively with a PDE-5, which is only good for 4-5 systolic, I said I was going to use it until I had BP meds in-hand (hence mentioning I had already started sourcing Telmisartan prior to posting) or deciding to take an AI. None of my options included not treating the HTN.

I do not freak out and over-correct, I understand the expected timeline of changes.

I took 6.25mg Asin the same day to be cautious regardless, so your point is moot.

 

[Pooplord420]

Re

is this a blast or cruise ? it really depends on your goals, also your test response is low.
Even if you dont have acne or gyno, Id be worried about mental sides with your e2 being double reference range overtime you might slip into feeling to feely.

If you want to keep upping your test dosage to see how test affects you, Id start with a small dosage of aromasin a week.
Being that you dont have sides right now is good, but your e2 will raise even more since you upped your dosage 50mg a week,
so with that said you will eventually get side effects and dosing minimally with aromasin once youve already had side effects isnt ideal because you will want those side effects
to go away quickkly which may lead to you messing with your dosage of aromasin too much, beause it takes weeks for estrogen to stabilize from consistent aromasin dosing.

like your e2 is higher than 67 now and will continue to rise, then youll get sides and try to treat them on a too short of a timeline which makes it hard to dial in what your response is via bloodwork if youre always changing things, so my sugguestion is to change 1 thing at a time and change things slightly before they become a problem.
Like Id say drop to 250 and take 6.25mg asin per week, with fat. but your only at 1250 so idk if thats worth it to you if its a blast or what info youre trying to figure out

Like every bloodwork should have a goal, like this one is that you know how you feel on 67 e2 and that 67 e2 makes your BP high and that test dose doesnt bring you up that high out of reference range. From that info you can deduce more info without having to get bloodwork so often.

really depends on what youre trying to do



Cialis to treat actual hypertension? You think 10mg of cialis has the potential to reduce his systolic by 20 points????

No you take asin to reduce the water retention or you take 10mg lisinopril and see how that goes.


youre really going to take medical advice from a guy who joined this forum 2 months ago and his name is POOPLORD420.
hypertension is the top 5 killer in america and you listen to a guy who smokes weed and names himself poop when he tells you to take a pill for erectil dysfunction

Read my post. I said try Cialis and if its not enough then switch to an ARB. Cialis absolutely will help with blood pressure and personally my systolic goes down by 5-7 points when im on it. Sure, it might not get him down to low 120s on its own but diet and consistent electrolyte intake also plays a big role (im assuming they have that in check). Its better than nothing while he’s waiting for his other meds to come in. Sure my account is new but thats just because I forgot my old login. I’ve been on this board since it was still on reddit. The main reason I caution AI use is that even a low dose dosed too frequently has the potential to cut your E2 in half which is not something you necessarily want. Its all about your Test to E2 ratio, if you have a supraphysiological amount of test you will probably need a supraphysiological amount of E2.

 

[Kiwi]

Re

Read my post. I said try Cialis and if its not enough then switch to an ARB. Cialis absolutely will help with blood pressure and personally my systolic goes down by 5-7 points when im on it. Sure, it might not get him down to low 120s on its own but diet and consistent electrolyte intake also plays a big role (im assuming they have that in check). Its better than nothing while he’s waiting for his other meds to come in. Sure my account is new but thats just because I forgot my old login. I’ve been on this board since it was still on reddit. The main reason I caution AI use is that even a low dose dosed too frequently has the potential to cut your E2 in half which is not something you necessarily want. Its all about your Test to E2 ratio, if you have a supraphysiological amount of test you will probably need a supraphysiological amount of E2.

Agree that E2 needs to be proportional to Test. Confers several benefits, not the least of which is cardio protection, hence my attempt to avoid/minimize AI use; both rose near-perfect 3x from baseline.

Viagra x 2 over the course of the day ended up not being enough to pull me down into the 120’s where I would be comfortable (enough) to wait out receiving Telmisartan, so dosed 6.25mg Asin that evening for the interim. BP down slightly.

Telmisartan should arrive today, will titrate dose as appropriate over the next couple weeks to control BP and attempt to avoid needing further AI dosing; We shall see.

Appreciate your input.