Experienced Tren Gods I need your advice...

[PersianBody19]

I need help from you tren supreme beings lol…

Intro

Seriously though, I am wanting to start a lean bulk cycle with tren A with test E and I need as much input from you experienced Tren Users lol.
First off, I’m not tight on money because of the idea of a low dose of tren A but I want to get away with the lowest dose as possible so I can not “feel” that many sides (I know everything has sides and everyone reacts differently to doses). I am also contemplating to just get on NPP for 300-400mg but still not sure, will see after these replies…

Yes, I know diet > drugs. please don’t become a professor and feel the need to lecture me on how drugs don’t matter it’s the food/cals…

Also, I want to lean bulk but wanna stay the f*ck away from Deca, if anyone has experience on NPP or EQ without pinning either of them over 800mg a week please pitch in, but if you’re harpooning more CC’s a week than my gf’s mom doing lip botox just don’t comment lol.

Now to get to the real SH*T

Background info:

-23 y/o
-on trt 150mg weekly
-184 ish
-5’ 9"
-15-16% bf

• 4 years of real training

my Cycle goal is to do a Lean Bulk ( +300-500 cals to diet), and no I am not competing in a show

I have never touched tren to give you an idea of how new it is for me. My idea is I want to put on as much keepable (keyword keepable) size as I can rather than being a temporary 6-8 week look, and yes I know definition and Size won’t be the same when off-cycle, learned that already…

My 12 week simple cycle plan- 200mg Test E & 140mg Tren A

*No PCT - will taper back down on trt

*P5P - 50mg ED for week 1-2 then 100mg for week 2-12

Questions:

1. Any result from this low dose of tren A for a lean bulk? besides the “nice veins bro” lol
2. Should my dose ratio be 1:1 (trt to tren)
3. Up doses as weeks progresses but Cap it at 200-300mg?
4. Anyone even tried low dose tren A with trt dose or is this a waste of time?
5. Should I shorten/lengthen the cycle?
6. Swap my test E for short-acting ester or doesn’t make a diff?
7. When I get off tren A I know I will lose the leanness/definition, but will I deflate/lose a lot of gains even if other sh*t is in check?

I appreciate your replies, I am still under the debate of tren A or NPP but hopefully this helps

 

[TripleBSolutions]

Tren can be great on a bulk, but for your purposes and your budget I would recommend going with 500mg Test per week with an oral like Anadrol thrown in. You could add 50-100mg NPP per day if you really wanted to.

If you are not open to that idea you can most definitely see results on Tren A at 50mg per day. If you stay on TRT and keep up your diet and training regime you will keep most of your gains.

 

[PersianBody19]

@TripleBSolutions

I appreciate your reply, but again I’m NOT thinking about this idea because of a budget, rather I want to do the least amount of AAS but still get the benefits. I have done cycles In the past with doses in moderate ranges and hated the sides from it, and then once I lowered the doses they were bearable. I now want to try/research tren A on a bulk but on a low dose range.

 

[TripleBSolutions]

@PersianBody19 apologies, I read that wrong.

You can definitely see results on 50mg Tren A per day. Some competitors run 50mg EOD pre-comp and do just fine, but I don’t think that would cultivate the results you are looking for on a bulk.

 

[Cog_Noggin]

I’m not here to discourage you from doing what you feel you need to do, or to play gatekeeper for tren, but I’d like to hear more about why you’re considering getting on tren in your situation. You say you’re not competing, so I’m assuming you’re just a recreational PED user trying to pack on some quality lean tissue, which is the case for plenty of us. Personally, I’d strongly advise you to steer clear of tren if you’re willing to do so. Unless you have more information to add, I just don’t see any reason whatsoever for you to take it. Sure, it’s powerful and provides good bang for the buck, but if you’re not a competitor and you give a rat’s ass about your health and longevity, I don’t see the rationale for taking one of the most toxic AAS to recreationally add some muscle. Some people handle it better than others, but it’s pretty well-established that tren is going to negatively impact your kidneys, heart, and brain worse than most other compounds.

At your current size, if you can’t make solid progression on 400-500mg of testosterone, I wouldn’t be looking at pharmacology to change your physique. As per your first post, you know about diet > drugs, and I’m sure you know about the importance of training, so I won’t beat that dead horse. I just want to encourage harm reduction by steering people away from shit like tren, which is hard to rationalize unless you’re using it to prepare for a competition that your livelihood leans on. Even then, bodybuilders like John Meadows claim that tren isn’t needed, and you can get contest-ready with primarily test and mast. For guys like you and me that don’t want to step on stage, we can substitute plenty of far less toxic options than tren to gain the same amount of muscle over time. You asked about experience with running NPP and EQ at less than 800mg per week, so I can give you some anecdotal experience there.

Either NPP or EQ would be a much better alternative to tren for you. I see an alarming number of people saying that EQ isn’t worth much if you run it at anything less than 600-800mg, but that’s a crock of shit unless you’re a terrible responder to gear, your diet and training aren’t in check, you’re used to running heavy cycles with tren and multiple other compounds at high doses, or you’re just so advanced that you truly need more drugs to keep gaining muscle (or any combination of the previous factors could apply). I ran 400 test and 400 EQ for 16-18 weeks, and I got stronger, leaner, and more vascular (I was recomping/lean bulking) while ending up 5-10lbs heavier when all was said and done. Running that EQ brought out vascularity in my lower abs, quads, and forearms that I had never seen before, and it’s all been permanent as long as I keep my bodyfat in the mid-teens or lower (it’s hard to visually estimate bodyfat, but I try to be conservative and realistic with my estimates). As advertised, EQ gave me slow, steady, lean gains in muscle tissue while letting me get strong and vascular. 400mg per week was plenty to see results with hard training.

With NPP, I ran it for a total of 10 weeks. I did 300mg testosterone throughout, and started with 4 weeks of Anavar as well (in retrospect, I kind of wish I did the Anavar for the last four weeks of the cycle). I started with two weeks of 150mg NPP (50mg MWF), then four weeks of 210mg NPP (70mg MWF), followed by four weeks of 300mg NPP (100mg MWF). 300mg of NPP was plenty, it had me looking and feeling full, strong, and pumped. There was definitely some significant water bloat in the final weeks for me, so I had to watch my blood pressure and keep doing cardio. It was great for size and strength though, and I can only imagine what an 8 week run at 300mg NPP would do for me. That 10 week cycle took me from a fairly lean 205-210lbs to a full, slightly watery 220-225lbs, It definitely got me a lot of comments on my shoulders and arms, and I was stretching shirts that normally fit just right. I was consistently getting stronger at all my lifts in the gym and my joints felt good the whole time. It was definitely a good experience, and if 300mg NPP was so strong for me at 5’10" 210lbs, I’d say you can expect good things from it at your size. Definitely no reason to consider something like 800mg NPP per week until you’re much, much bigger. I never intend to touch a dose that high, but I also never want to be over 230lbs, and I can respect that lots of people are or aspire to be pushing 300lbs+.

I didn’t mean to ramble, but hopefully you got something out of that. Just wanted to provide some experiences with NPP and EQ since you requested them, and above all, I encourage you to avoid tren and stick with low/moderate dosages of more mild compounds. Again, I’m not trying to tell you what to do, I just want to make sure you’re seeing your options clearly, and if your health is a priority, you’d do well to try NPP or EQ instead of tren. Where you’re at right now, the mildest cycles should yield you plenty of gains, leaving you room to up dosages and try new compounds in the future as you need to without really jeopardizing your health more than you need to.

 

[PersianBody19]

@Cog_Noggin

I appreciate your reply bro, I agree with you after also talking to two of my close friends that have tried/cycled tren earlier today, it seems that everyone is saying the same thing that it’s more of a competition drug rather than a “lifestyle” drug (if I can say that lol). I’m now looking into NPP and that’s why I mentioned it in my post because I was completely unsure of what to choose until now.

When you went up from the dose of 210mg-300mg for the remaining weeks, did you have any prolactin/estro issues and have to results to caber and or AI?

I want to avoid caber and just get on P5P like 100mg ED when I get on the bike but I will also get it on hand Just in case.

 

[Cog_Noggin]

@PersianBody19
I’m glad to hear that, man. I honestly think you’ll be better off in every way down the road for not choosing tren.

I never ran into prolactin issues, which was definitely something I was nervous about with trying a nor-19 for the first time. That’s a big part of the reason that I started at 150mg and pyramided up while keeping an eye out for any side effects. I had caber on hand of course, but I’ve never had to use it. It seems like 300mg of nandrolone is generally a pretty safe zone where you shouldn’t have to worry about prolactin effects. I didn’t even bother with P5P myself.

I will say that when my test:NPP ratio was at 1:1 for those last 4 weeks, I started to feel a little more mentally hazy, and I sort of lacked the “energetic, healthy aggression” that I usually have on supraphysiological dosages of testosterone. So in the future, I might bump my test to keep it at least a little higher than NPP and keep those feelings of well-being.

 

[PersianBody19]

@Cog_Noggin

That sounds good, I already have a decent amount of p5p (used to work at Vitaminshoppe lol) and will get caber for a worst-case scenario.

You mentioned the test to NPP ratio 1:1 made you feel mentally a little gone, how much test would you have upped it to get “clearer” in a sense?

Now planning for 10-12 weeks of NPP, Test E, low dose tbol or maybe var (6 weeks worth).

Test E week 1-12 250-375mg
NPP week 1-3 150mg → 3-6 200mg → 6-9 250mg → 9-12 300mg
Oral (var or Tbol) 20-25mg week 6-12

AI,P5P, Caber: on hand/as needed

 

[Aoi_611]

I personally wouldn’t recommend tren for a lean bulk, although I’ve attempted it many times. From my experience tren, especially in high(ish) doses impacts recovery which is obviously essential for growth. Granted you’ll make gains on it but they’re not the same gains you’ll make when you’re getting 8+ hours of sleep a night. Something that’s hard to do on tren unless you’ve got your dosage just right.

I’m taking a break from tren in favor of NPP and EQ. 4 weeks into a lean bulk with that. Get on the scale at 250 and waist is still feeling tight. I’m sleeping great. Appetite is great and I’m feeling great. I’m gonna just allocating tren to recomps and cutting. That’s where it shines IMO

 

[jef9786]

This is kind of what I’m looking to do as well, 500mg test and 400mg eq. What’s your pin schedule with eq on a recomp cycle? Does it matter?

 

[Cog_Noggin]

@PersianBody19 I think I would have bumped test up to 400mg and reassessed, or if I hadn’t taken my 4 weeks of Anavar at the beginning, I would have just ran it at the end when my NPP was at 300mg/wk. I’m just spitballing at this point, but Anavar gives me a good sense of wellbeing and just seems to be a pleasant compound for me mentally, so perhaps the effects of a nice DHT derivative like Anavar would’ve been enough to offset the mild mental effects I was feeling with a 1:1 test:NPP ratio. So since your plan is to run Anavar or Tbol at the end of your cycle, you might be feeling just fine, especially if your test is towards the upper end of the range you gave (375mg).

I think your cycle plan looks good, in my humble opinion. It’s certainly something I would run. I’m a fan of both Anavar and Tbol, and I think a lot of people write them off unfairly because they just produce slow, clean, quality gains that will stick around, instead of blowing you up fast with water and glycogen while smoking your liver like some harsher orals. I almost envy you; if you’re able to eat and train well for those 12 weeks, you can expect to make some substantial progress without feeling like shit from taking toxic compounds. Have fun.

 

[Cog_Noggin]

@jef9786
I only pinned EQ once a week, partly because the half life is so long (about 2 weeks if I remember correctly) and partly because it was easy to do with high concentration oil (600mg/ml). Once I ran out of high concentration EQ, I might have switched to injecting it twice a week just because I dislike doing high volume injections, but I don’t think it matters much with such a long half life. I was injecting Test E twice a week throughout the cycle.