Gyno developed with low estrogen

[biggiesmalls10]

What could be causing gyno when estrogen is consistently under 20pg/ml?

Im in my late 20’s, 6’5 250 12% with no history of gyno. July 26th was my first time developing gyno and I have not been able to get rid of it this past month. Bloodwork tests has consistently showed relatively low e2, prolactin and progesterone.

June 1st I started a cycle of 700 test E, 500 primo 350 mast prop. I always pin EOD. Seven weeks on cycle estrogen was 6.6pg/ml, way too low. Prolactin was low around 3ng/ml, progesterone at 0.5. Due to this I dropped masteron on July 22nd.

Four days after dropping mast my nips got tender and I noticed a tiny hard lump the size of a pea under both my nipples. Concerned, I ordered bloodwork and e2 was at 18pg/ml. This is two weeks after dropping the masteron prop. Using 700 test 500 primo only = 18pg/ml.

To ensure the consistency of the test results I ran a third test early August and e2 came back at 19.5pg/ml - all tests were sensitive e2, not standard estrogen. Prolactin tested at 10 and progesterone 0.5.

The gyno is not noticeable but there is a tender lump under each nipple. The lump on the left has not grown since, but the lump on the right nipple has grown to the size of a marble up until I started nolva.

20mg ED of Nolvadex has prevented further growth but has not helped shrink the lump, it’s currently stagnant. 2 weeks into nolva.



I ran out of primo so I changed my cycle last week to try to suppress e2 even further:

Currently running 500 test, 500eq, 350mastp, and 12.5 aromasin ED and 40mg nolva ED. EQ frontloaded.

My e2 feels like its low (similar to June) because of joint pain, but my sex drive is still going strong so I’m happy. Getting bloodwork AGAIN in a few weeks.



I’m about to run 100mg Ralox ED once the nolva runs out.

Since this has never happened before Im asking you experienced users who have dealt with this for advice.

What could have caused this gyno?

If my current cycle with ralox doesn’t work to shrink the lumps, what should I do?

I do not want surgery, I just want the lumps to shrink and stop being tender.

 

[biggiesmalls10]

I should also mention I have been cycling for years and my e2 usually stays around 20-30ng/ml year round. In 2019 my e2 was 50+ for weeks at a time with NO hints of gyno or any other symptoms whatsoever except cystic acne on the back.


Now my e2 is under 20ng/ml and I’m slowly developing gyno. What the fuck

 

[FrancoC]

Are you taking hCG?

 

[biggiesmalls10]

Are you taking hCG?

No

 

[chimpanzee19]

Similar situation as yourself, except I’d been running dbol and deca when it happened (not a new thing for me, but the gyno certainly was). I’m able to keep it in check with ralox and nolva, however it always seems to come back. Will be attempting a combination of both with supporting supplements for a really long time to see if I can fix this. Seems like once you get it, you can keep it under control, but you can’t stop it from coming back.

 

[superawesomename]

It relative man, you're not going to grow tits overnight. I had low t and prepubertal gyno, I get flare ups all the time and the tissue behind my nipples gets hard and enlarged, then it'll be practically non existent. If it bothers me that much I could go talk to someone about gyno surgery and never have to worry about it again. There's no sense in taking drugs because my bloodwork, like yours, is g2g. It's just a comfort thing if it's not objectively getting consistently larger over time. Even then, the first thing my doctor did was poke around my tits and order a scan to just tell me they won't do anything about it.

If you're not milking and they don't ache I really wouldn't worry about it. Keep your eye on general size but keep in mind the mass can change in size depending on a lot of things. FWIW I've noticed the cleaner I eat and the more I sleep, the smaller they are. It doesn't seem to matter how lean I am, either.

 

[biggiesmalls10]

Similar situation as yourself, except I’d been running dbol and deca when it happened (not a new thing for me, but the gyno certainly was). I’m able to keep it in check with ralox and nolva, however it always seems to come back. Will be attempting a combination of both with supporting supplements for a really long time to see if I can fix this. Seems like once you get it, you can keep it under control, but you can’t stop it from coming back.

Appreciate the response, a lot of people develop gyno from dbol it seems. What’s your ralox dose and body weight?

 

[biggiesmalls10]

It relative man, you're not going to grow tits overnight. I had low t and prepubertal gyno, I get flare ups all the time and the tissue behind my nipples gets hard and enlarged, then it'll be practically non existent. If it bothers me that much I could go talk to someone about gyno surgery and never have to worry about it again. There's no sense in taking drugs because my bloodwork, like yours, is g2g. It's just a comfort thing if it's not objectively getting consistently larger over time. Even then, the first thing my doctor did was poke around my tits and order a scan to just tell me they won't do anything about it.

If you're not milking and they don't ache I really wouldn't worry about it. Keep your eye on general size but keep in mind the mass can change in size depending on a lot of things. FWIW I've noticed the cleaner I eat and the more I sleep, the smaller they are. It doesn't seem to matter how lean I am, either.

This was very helpful, I agree that it is a comfort thing to a large degree. Biggest takeaway was “the cleaner I eat and the more I sleep, the smaller they are.” First thing I’m going to try is to swap the fast food for more rice and chicken and get back on my 8 hours a night regimen.

Have you ever used ralox/nolva? You mentioned there’s been times your gyno was practically non-existent. We’re you using any SERMs during this time? Or did it go away on it’s own

 

[chimpanzee19]

Appreciate the response, a lot of people develop gyno from dbol it seems. What’s your ralox dose and body weight?

It “goes away” at 30mgs/daily usually after a few weeks, sensitivity is gone after a few days, however it generally comes back over time.

To kill it off, following what MPMD’s said (or someone, I don’t remember) about taking 60mgs/day for 10 days and then 30mgs/day there after with 20mgs of Nolva. Will probably run the two for 6 months and will be taking Vitamin E and P5P.

 

[PteRoy]

Consider adding in Apigenin to your Raloxifene. The apigenin, which is a flavone analog of estrogen, inhibits portions of phase 2 metabolism of Raloxifene which increases the exposure rate of intact raloxifene. Makes your Raloxifene work better.

Raloxifene 50mg for 14 days
Apigenin 400-600mg for 14 days

Then

Raloxifene 25mg till gyno is gone
Apigenin 200-250mg till gyno is gone

Rough estimates, dosages of Apigenin can be adjusted based on body weight.

 

[chimpanzee19]

Consider adding in Apigenin to your Raloxifene. The apigenin, which is a flavone analog of estrogen, inhibits portions of phase 2 metabolism of Raloxifene which increases the exposure rate of intact raloxifene. Makes your Raloxifene work better.

Raloxifene 50mg for 14 days
Apigenin 400-600mg for 14 days

Then

Raloxifene 25mg till gyno is gone
Apigenin 200-250mg till gyno is gone

Rough estimates, dosages of Apigenin can be adjusted based on body weight.

Just ordered from Amazon, thanks man

 

[superawesomename]

This was very helpful, I agree that it is a comfort thing to a large degree. Biggest takeaway was “the cleaner I eat and the more I sleep, the smaller they are.” First thing I’m going to try is to swap the fast food for more rice and chicken and get back on my 8 hours a night regimen.

Have you ever used ralox/nolva? You mentioned there’s been times your gyno was practically non-existent. We’re you using any SERMs during this time? Or did it go away on it’s own

I've taken 60-120mg ralox before for like 4 months to try to nuke whatever of it I could, and during that time they felt like they pretty much went away. Stopped taking it for reasons and within a few weeks it was back to being the same old. I'm pretty sure if I'd had kept with it for 6+ months it might have fucked off permanently. I'm on TRT so I've just kind of chocked it up to being my run of things. I could take more drugs, but I'm really a huge fan of not taking other shit if we don't have to. Like you, all my levels are in range and I feel fine. So after getting past the fact that I see them more than other people, if at all, it's been easy living.

I'd advise trying to widen your chest. I do lots of incline work, close grip work, and high to low flyes. I've found that a proper shape/condition can make the puffiness of my nipples irrelevant.