Has anyone on here successfully raised their SHBG

[Rampage0331]

No problem we are all learning here. Honestly, I had no clue testosterone was neutralized in the liver via oxidation to be excreted. It makes sense since the liver usually does have a process to change substances form (like ammonia to BUN) to then allow for easier excretion but I didn't know the specifics of it.

Is this for TRT or Blasting?
If you are looking to use a higher SHBG as a buffer for any initial injection, it is doubtful it will be impactful? As only 1-3% of T is unbound naturally, SHBG has a high affinity for binding so it is already bound with androgens, more transiently, albumin would be better to initially bind as there is a lesser chance that it is fully bound due to its weak affinity.

It is kind of hard to explain.
Initially, it may help a little bit... But if you slam exogenous hormones you will have a small upshoot in your blood regardless, it will take time to bind to anything.
Eventually, either binding stops or occurs at the same rate as unbinding, making it useless unless you continuously increase SHBG which is not sustainable or really possible. The only real function of SHBG is to hold onto DHT,E2, or T until a receptor has a higher affinity for it than the SHBG. SHBG has an affinity to bind E2 and DHT due to the molarity but again it will then also unbind faster since androgen receptors also have a high affinity for them haha. I mean it may be a tad bit healthier since there is research saying that if an androgen receptor NEEDS a hormone to be bound, it may have a small advantage to be transported on a weakly bound albumin or strongly bound SHBG. Again though, in any excess of hormones TRT or Blast this would never be the case...

Then actually increasing SHBG is hard to impossible, low insulin or high thyroxine increases SHBG, high E2 or low T will too. Anticonvulsant drugs can increase SHBG, while IGF1, non-aromatizing androgens, and Hgh decrease it.

If you are just looking for a steady release undecanoate T is best bet.

Hey what’s up dude, long day but I’ve been looking forward to continuing this conversation.

So my initial thought would be to ask if having a higher SHBG (compared to mine at 8) would be helpful in the same way more frequent doses of T is, I’ll explain; so if you take a massive dose of T compared to daily micro doses of T you’re going to get the same amount of T in your body either way, let’s say 200mg for example. And either way out of that 200mg of T you will have the same amount convert to E and DHT, just a matter of concentration dependent on the amount of T in your system at once, correct? So if you do it this way and you blast a large amount of T you will have the same amount of derivative hormones as a more frequent dose but because there’s so much at once, you’ll have way more E and DHT at once as opposed to the smaller dose of T and less derivatives of T being created at any given time. And that is where you will run into the problems when dosing high and infrequent.

Im wondering if this same scenario can be applied to SHBG levels. If you have adequate levels of SHBG (which at 8 I do not think I really do, but I might be fine I honestly have no idea and I can’t get a real answer here from any trt place I’ve reached out to) even though you have X amount of hormones/androgens in your body, because more would be bound up this will lead to a scenario where your concentrations of these testosterone derivatives are at a lower and steadier level.

I may be getting way too in depth on all this and it has no impact either way if my SHBG is an 8 or a 20. I don’t know. But ultimately I just want to understand how my body is doing what it does so I am better equipped to have my health be in my hands. I’m a 100% va disabled Marine infantry veteran and the Va medical system in conjunction with quack trt doctors have completely destroyed any faith I had in someone other than myself being in charge of my own health care, so that’s where this quest for knowledge is coming from.

I’m on trt but I would want to add more gear on as I continue to get older and gain knowledge about all of this shit so I have no question about how to most safely add in compounds and manage my hormone levels without a doctors help.

 

[Deucalion]

Hey what’s up dude, long day but I’ve been looking forward to continuing this conversation.

So my initial thought would be to ask if having a higher SHBG (compared to mine at 8) would be helpful in the same way more frequent doses of T is, I’ll explain; so if you take a massive dose of T compared to daily micro doses of T you’re going to get the same amount of T in your body either way, let’s say 200mg for example. And either way out of that 200mg of T you will have the same amount convert to E and DHT, just a matter of concentration dependent on the amount of T in your system at once, correct? So if you do it this way and you blast a large amount of T you will have the same amount of derivative hormones as a more frequent dose but because there’s so much at once, you’ll have way more E and DHT at once as opposed to the smaller dose of T and less derivatives of T being created at any given time. And that is where you will run into the problems when dosing high and infrequent.

Im wondering if this same scenario can be applied to SHBG levels. If you have adequate levels of SHBG (which at 8 I do not think I really do, but I might be fine I honestly have no idea and I can’t get a real answer here from any trt place I’ve reached out to) even though you have X amount of hormones/androgens in your body, because more would be bound up this will lead to a scenario where your concentrations of these testosterone derivatives are at a lower and steadier level.

I may be getting way too in depth on all this and it has no impact either way if my SHBG is an 8 or a 20. I don’t know. But ultimately I just want to understand how my body is doing what it does so I am better equipped to have my health be in my hands. I’m a 100% va disabled Marine infantry veteran and the Va medical system in conjunction with quack trt doctors have completely destroyed any faith I had in someone other than myself being in charge of my own health care, so that’s where this quest for knowledge is coming from.

I’m on trt but I would want to add more gear on as I continue to get older and gain knowledge about all of this shit so I have no question about how to most safely add in compounds and manage my hormone levels without a doctors help.

I think I am getting more what you are saying, especially since this is for TRT, not supraphysiological doses/effects. SHBG may actually have a purpose which is to transport T,E2, or DHT to "at need androgen receptors" in this case. So, yes, you may get SOME relief of E2 and DHT symptoms in this scenario due to them being bound and non-active, the thing is you will EVENTUALLY have to process these hormones though. My understanding is that if the SHBG doesn't get rid of the hormone by it binding to a higher affinity androgen receptor, some fall off during pass 1 liver, and most hormones fall off and become bioavailable by pass 2 liver.

I feel like I threw a bunch of information at you, here is the thing, you are correct as far as I can understand it. The thing is I will have to take this a different route so it is more specific to you. What is your free T on TRT? If it is normal, more SHBG would cause the bioavailable (Free T) to decrease causing symptoms of low T at the same dose. Studies now recognize Free T as being the better determiner for TRT replacement than total T. So you taking 200mg per example would feel like 100 mg if you raised your shbg, less sides, but only because you have less bioavailable. It takes a lot to pull those hormones off SHBG the receptor affinity would have to be high, and like I had said DHT and E2 are gonna be the ones more than likely pulled off first due to their molarity and affinity for androgen receptors.

I understand healthcare is awful, I appreciate your service man!

I think you need to really look at this differently SHBG is not going to be able to be influenced much. I hear coffee can raise SHBG, doubtful it would be significant though. You may be better off dealing with issues more singularly. At the end of the day, your free T and aromatization are the problem... DHT you are kinda stuck with unless you take a 5a reductase inhibitor which like you had said previously can be awful for sides... The medicine is pretty clear on all of this, if you are interested in supplements that are NOT tested as rigorously for FDA approval that is a different conversation.

Sorry for this cluster fuck of a post, essentially the gist is I do not think raising your SHBG will do much . Even if SHBG would help relieve some of your symptoms a little bit, raising shbg is impractical and not going to happen in a significant or safe way.

 

[Rampage0331]

I think I am getting more what you are saying, especially since this is for TRT, not supraphysiological doses/effects. SHBG may actually have a purpose which is to transport T,E2, or DHT to "at need androgen receptors" in this case. So, yes, you may get SOME relief of E2 and DHT symptoms in this scenario due to them being bound and non-active, the thing is you will EVENTUALLY have to process these hormones though. My understanding is that if the SHBG doesn't get rid of the hormone by it binding to a higher affinity androgen receptor, some fall off during pass 1 liver, and most hormones fall off and become bioavailable by pass 2 liver.

I feel like I threw a bunch of information at you, here is the thing, you are correct as far as I can understand it. The thing is I will have to take this a different route so it is more specific to you. What is your free T on TRT? If it is normal, more SHBG would cause the bioavailable (Free T) to decrease causing symptoms of low T at the same dose. Studies now recognize Free T as being the better determiner for TRT replacement than total T. So you taking 200mg per example would feel like 100 mg if you raised your shbg, less sides, but only because you have less bioavailable. It takes a lot to pull those hormones off SHBG the receptor affinity would have to be high, and like I had said DHT and E2 are gonna be the ones more than likely pulled off first due to their molarity and affinity for androgen receptors.

I understand healthcare is awful, I appreciate your service man!

I think you need to really look at this differently SHBG is not going to be able to be influenced much. I hear coffee can raise SHBG, doubtful it would be significant though. You may be better off dealing with issues more singularly. At the end of the day, your free T and aromatization are the problem... DHT you are kinda stuck with unless you take a 5a reductase inhibitor which like you had said previously can be awful for sides... The medicine is pretty clear on all of this, if you are interested in supplements that are NOT tested as rigorously for FDA approval that is a different conversation.

Sorry for this cluster fuck of a post, essentially the gist is I do not think raising your SHBG will do much . Even if SHBG would help relieve some of your symptoms a little bit, raising shbg is impractical and not going to happen in a significant or safe way.

Hey thanks for another solid response here.

So I’m definitely hearing what you’re saying, sounds like the quest for to raise the SHBG could be playing with fire due to negative effects on the free test. I guess the question is how much impact would going from an 8 to a 20 SHBG have on it, is it worth it? I don’t think there’s really a way to know with out doing it lol

The only things I’ve found that seem to make any sense in regards to raising the shbg is taking a serm in conjunction with berberine. More estrogen in the system not bound onto the receptor apparently raises SHBG even tho I don’t know why and also the less insulin resistant your body is the better it is at making SHBG. I just started HGH so I’m going to be taking berberine aswell as ALA. I have no reason to believe I’m currently insulin resistant but if taking this also can bump up the SHBG I’m killing two birds with one stone. I don’t know how I feel about the SERM though. I haven’t done enough research on them and I’m sure they are packed with their own negative side effects.

Edit: so I forgot to mention that it seems thyroid health also is a big factor for SHBG. Again, I have no reason to believe I have any thyroid issues but they’ve never been included in my bloodwork so I’m going to get those levels checked out and see if that’s all in balance or. Not.

So my free T stays between 202-260 on pace with my total T staying between 840-980. My assumption is that hcg dose in relation to when I do a blood test accounts for the differences here as I’m on 140mg a week of cyp dosed at 20mg per day.

Another component of this is that I just bought a bunch of Anavar and I was very excited to run that for a bit, nothing crazy but it’s more my speed as it’s “less” side effects compared to most other compounds. But then I read it lowers SHBG and I don’t really have much to spare. What kind of impact would running this have on my already low SHBG levels? And is this the sort of thing where I’d bounce back or would I be fucking my self in a chase to add 5-10lbs of muscle?

 

[Deucalion]

Hey thanks for another solid response here.

So I’m definitely hearing what you’re saying, sounds like the quest for to raise the SHBG could be playing with fire due to negative effects on the free test. I guess the question is how much impact would going from an 8 to a 20 SHBG have on it, is it worth it? I don’t think there’s really a way to know with out doing it lol

The only things I’ve found that seem to make any sense in regards to raising the shbg is taking a serm in conjunction with berberine. More estrogen in the system not bound onto the receptor apparently raises SHBG even tho I don’t know why and also the less insulin resistant your body is the better it is at making SHBG. I just started HGH so I’m going to be taking berberine aswell as ALA. I have no reason to believe I’m currently insulin resistant but if taking this also can bump up the SHBG I’m killing two birds with one stone. I don’t know how I feel about the SERM though. I haven’t done enough research on them and I’m sure they are packed with their own negative side effects.

Edit: so I forgot to mention that it seems thyroid health also is a big factor for SHBG. Again, I have no reason to believe I have any thyroid issues but they’ve never been included in my bloodwork so I’m going to get those levels checked out and see if that’s all in balance or. Not.

So my free T stays between 202-260 on pace with my total T staying between 840-980. My assumption is that hcg dose in relation to when I do a blood test accounts for the differences here as I’m on 140mg a week of cyp dosed at 20mg per day.

Another component of this is that I just bought a bunch of Anavar and I was very excited to run that for a bit, nothing crazy but it’s more my speed as it’s “less” side effects compared to most other compounds. But then I read it lowers SHBG and I don’t really have much to spare. What kind of impact would running this have on my already low SHBG levels? And is this the sort of thing where I’d bounce back or would I be fucking my self in a chase to add 5-10lbs of muscle?

Again, you seem to know a bit here already and as far as I can deduce you are correct! Taking T exogenously CAN lower T4(thyroxine) and if that is the case a higher T4 will increase SHBG. If you have insulin resistance fixing that will decrease insulin therefore helping to increase SHBG. I would look into serms more, I know nolvadex has a higher affinity to block Eestrogen at the breast tissue, this is why it is superior for gyno. I would watch liver enzymes with any serm though ESPECIALLY if you are going to run anavar which can be hard on the liver. I saw decaffeinated coffee increase SHBG by 5 points after 8 weeks of consumption in males. I also saw dexamethasone, in low doses, increases SHBG levels too.(you do NOT want to take corticosteroids though, you will fuck yourself up really good with that)

All I saw is that anavar significantly dropped SHBG I would imagine if you stopped taking it, it would return back to normal but don't know after how long. I mean if you are blasting T and adding anavar though, I would imagine your SHBG will be very low again.

What is your E2 if you have it on hand, that you are having these effects like backne and gyno?

Your Free T is perfect, why are you trying to add SHBG to bind it? you are gonna lower it to sub-optimal levels and may actually feel low T symptoms because of it. I'm sorry man I really do not understand what your goal is here.

 

[Rampage0331]

Again, you seem to know a bit here already and as far as I can deduce you are correct! Taking T exogenously CAN lower T4(thyroxine) and if that is the case a higher T4 will increase SHBG. If you have insulin resistance fixing that will decrease insulin therefore helping to increase SHBG. I would look into serms more, I know nolvadex has a higher affinity to block Eestrogen at the breast tissue, this is why it is superior for gyno. I would watch liver enzymes with any serm though ESPECIALLY if you are going to run anavar which can be hard on the liver. I saw decaffeinated coffee increase SHBG by 5 points after 8 weeks of consumption in males. I also saw dexamethasone, in low doses, increases SHBG levels too.(you do NOT want to take corticosteroids though, you will fuck yourself up really good with that)

All I saw is that anavar significantly dropped SHBG I would imagine if you stopped taking it, it would return back to normal but don't know after how long. I mean if you are blasting T and adding anavar though, I would imagine your SHBG will be very low again.

What is your E2 if you have it on hand, that you are having these effects like backne and gyno?

Your Free T is perfect, why are you trying to add SHBG to bind it? you are gonna lower it to sub-optimal levels and may actually feel low T symptoms because of it. I'm sorry man I really do not understand what your goal is here.

Ok so seems like getting the thyroid levels checked and doing a fasted glucose test is the way to go.

E2 was 40 and I took that lab work last Thursday. I am consistently between 40-60 and I think that depends on the blood work being done closer to or further away from hcg doses (mon/fri).

Yea I definitely don’t want to fuck up my free test levels. And I don’t think cortico steroids are my answer. Definitely going to look into SERMs more. I drink coffee every morning. It’s caffeinated tho lol.

I guess I figured since my free T was solid I could afford to have it drop a bit in relation to a raise in the SHBG if it meant less E symptoms. The gyno hasn’t really gotten much worse since it came about back when I went through puberty. But the bacne got a bit worse once I got on trt. It’s not like the horror stories you see on guys who totally destroyed their shit on gear, but I would love to have clear skin again like when I was younger. I don’t wanna tan since I have alot of really expensive and solid tattoos. Otherwise I’d do that because it’s the only thing that ever worked.

So to answer the question there at the end, my goal is just to be balanced, be healthy, feel good, look good. I kind of went down the rabbit hole here on SHBG (lol) figuring maybe having the low levels of it was the the problem. Not convinced it’s not in play but after talking to you about it, seems like I’m putting too much weight into its effects. I think getting the fasted glucose and thyroid levels tested will be about all I can really do here.

So would you throw in the Anavar?

Edit: so although it seems like this quest to conquer SHBG may have not had the conclusion I thought it would I have dramatically increased my knowledge of a whole bunch of stuff through putting in all this time researching so I can’t say it was in vane lol

Edit 2: seems like this will be helpful information to know since you’re already going through the trouble of going over all this with me and I’d be interested in your thoughts. My first trt dr suggested I get on an AI after being on trt for a while since I told her the acne got a bit worse and I was worried about gyno. She had me on way too much arimidex and I crashed my Estrogen very quickly. I had a rough couple weeks getting back to normal. I didn’t get the levels checked but I know that’s what happened.

Since then I was hesitant about taking an AI. When I switched over to my current trt dr he suggested I try it again. I took .25 mg of arimidex and pretty much right away I felt off and decided it wasn’t worth the risk. I guess I’m either a super responder to arimidex or just super sensitive to estrogen changes.

Estrogen management and fear of making acne/gyno worse are really the main reasons I haven’t gotten on a real cycle.

 

[Deucalion]

Ok so seems like getting the thyroid levels checked and doing a fasted glucose test is the way to go.

E2 was 40 and I took that lab work last Thursday. I am consistently between 40-60 and I think that depends on the blood work being done closer to or further away from hcg doses (mon/fri).

Yea I definitely don’t want to fuck up my free test levels. And I don’t think cortico steroids are my answer. Definitely going to look into SERMs more. I drink coffee every morning. It’s caffeinated tho lol.

I guess I figured since my free T was solid I could afford to have it drop a bit in relation to a raise in the SHBG if it meant less E symptoms. The gyno hasn’t really gotten much worse since it came about back when I went through puberty. But the bacne got a bit worse once I got on trt. It’s not like the horror stories you see on guys who totally destroyed their shit on gear, but I would love to have clear skin again like when I was younger. I don’t wanna tan since I have alot of really expensive and solid tattoos. Otherwise I’d do that because it’s the only thing that ever worked.

So to answer the question there at the end, my goal is just to be balanced, be healthy, feel good, look good. I kind of went down the rabbit hole here on SHBG (lol) figuring maybe having the low levels of it was the the problem. Not convinced it’s not in play but after talking to you about it, seems like I’m putting too much weight into its effects. I think getting the fasted glucose and thyroid levels tested will be about all I can really do here.

So would you throw in the Anavar?

Edit: so although it seems like this quest to conquer SHBG may have not had the conclusion I thought it would I have dramatically increased my knowledge of a whole bunch of stuff through putting in all this time researching so I can’t say it was in vane lol

Edit 2: seems like this will be helpful information to know since you’re already going through the trouble of going over all this with me and I’d be interested in your thoughts. My first trt dr suggested I get on an AI after being on trt for a while since I told her the acne got a bit worse and I was worried about gyno. She had me on way too much arimidex and I crashed my Estrogen very quickly. I had a rough couple weeks getting back to normal. I didn’t get the levels checked but I know that’s what happened.

Since then I was hesitant about taking an AI. When I switched over to my current trt dr he suggested I try it again. I took .25 mg of arimidex and pretty much right away I felt off and decided it wasn’t worth the risk. I guess I’m either a super responder to arimidex or just super sensitive to estrogen changes.

Estrogen management and fear of making acne/gyno worse are really the main reasons I haven’t gotten on a real cycle.

I like the way you are thinking, T4 test and glucose. I totally understand the pursuit of health and bettering yourself I feel like we are all on that journey.
How much HCG and how often?

I am not trying to be disrespectful in any way here but I would hold off on the anavar until you get the basics down which is to control estrogen on T. Better to get the feel of the T blast and controlled E2 then add anavar.

I use arimidex too and PERSONALLY .25 mg on a trt dose would DESTROY me. I have only run 1 T cycle and crashed E2 once for maybe 2-3 days before the high doses of T I was doing (500mg/wk) raised it back up and that was because I took a whole .25mg at once. I learned on cycle half a .25mg on injection nights (2x a week) was perfect for me.
I have crashed my E2 at least 3 times while on a TRT dose, It is so hard to manage E2 on TRT. I crashed E2 twice then I let it ride and formed bacne, spicy nips, and bloat then I crashed my E2 again after haha it was a wild ride. I take 1/8th of a .25mg arimidex tab now 1-2 times a week and had to run a nolvadex protocol for about a week to get rid of gyno sides. I believe dialing in your E2 a little better is your best option here.

I wish I could tell you what exactly to do as far as AI but it is a game you have to play yourself. Everyone's body is different. I have heard aromasin is better for some people, less harsh compared to arimidex. I would start off with such a low dose (1/8th of a tab) arimidex if you choose that route and take it once and really watch your bacne and how you feel.

I mean, let me ask this though, when you crashed your E2 for weeks did your bacne and gyno reduce/resolve?

 

[Rampage0331]

Ok so seems like getting the thyroid levels checked and doing a fasted glucose test is the way to go.

E2 was 40 and I took that lab work last Thursday. I am consistently between 40-60 and I think that depends on the blood work being done closer to or further away from hcg doses (mon/fri).

Yea I definitely don’t want to fuck up my free test levels. And I don’t think cortico steroids are my answer. Definitely going to look into SERMs more. I drink coffee every morning. It’s caffeinated tho lol.

I guess I figured since my free T was solid I could afford to have it drop a bit in relation to a raise in the SHBG if it meant less E symptoms. The gyno hasn’t really gotten much worse since it came about back when I went through puberty. But the bacne got a bit worse once I got on trt. It’s not like the horror stories you see on guys who totally destroyed their shit on gear, but I would love to have clear skin again like when I was younger. I don’t wanna tan since I have alot of really expensive and solid tattoos. Otherwise I’d do that because it’s the only thing that ever worked.

So to answer the question there at the end, my goal is just to be balanced, be healthy, feel good, look good. I kind of went down the rabbit hole here on SHBG (lol) figuring maybe having the low levels of it was the the problem. Not convinced it’s not in play but after talking to you about it, seems like I’m putting too much weight into its effects. I think getting the fasted glucose and thyroid levels tested will be about all I can really do here.

So would you throw in the Anavar?

Edit: so although it seems like this quest to conquer SHBG may have not had the conclusion I thought it would I have dramatically increased my knowledge of a whole bunch of stuff through putting in all this time researching so I can’t say it was in vane lol

I like the way you are thinking, T4 test and glucose. I totally understand the pursuit of health and bettering yourself I feel like we are all on that journey.
How much HCG and how often?

I am not trying to be disrespectful in any way here but I would hold off on the anavar until you get the basics down which is to control estrogen on T. Better to get the feel of the T blast and controlled E2 then add anavar.

I use arimidex too and PERSONALLY .25 mg on a trt dose would DESTROY me. I have only run 1 T cycle and crashed E2 once for maybe 2-3 days before the high doses of T I was doing (500mg/wk) raised it back up and that was because I took a whole .25mg at once. I learned on cycle half a .25mg on injection nights (2x a week) was perfect for me.
I have crashed my E2 at least 3 times while on a TRT dose, It is so hard to manage E2 on TRT. I crashed E2 twice then I let it ride and formed bacne, spicy nips, and bloat then I crashed my E2 again after haha it was a wild ride. I take 1/8th of a .25mg arimidex tab now 1-2 times a week and had to run a nolvadex protocol for about a week to get rid of gyno sides. I believe dialing in your E2 a little better is your best option here.

I wish I could tell you what exactly to do as far as AI but it is a game you have to play yourself. Everyone's body is different. I have heard aromasin is better for some people, less harsh compared to arimidex. I would start off with such a low dose (1/8th of a tab) arimidex if you choose that route and take it once and really watch your bacne and how you feel.

I mean, let me ask this though, when you crashed your E2 for weeks did your bacne and gyno reduce/resolve?

No disrespect taken dude, I asked you and you gave me your opinion lol.

So I take hcg 2x a week on mon/fri and both are at 500iu a dose. I can tell the difference in my skin around the hcg dose. Mid week Im looking pretty dry for the most part and the acne settles down. My wife and I may want more kids so I’m not ready to stop taking hcg, I also don’t really want my nuts to be shut down and shrivel up. Some guys don’t care but that doesn’t seem like something I could handle mentally lol

That sounds fucking brutal about the estrogen. After I crashed mine it has been something that I still think about every now and then because it was just so physically and mentally miserable.

What do you aim to keep your e2 levels at? I definitely feel way better with it being in that 40-50 range than I did when I was trying to bring it down. I’ve read some guys want to stay up around 60 because they just feel better, some don’t want it over 20. With all the injuries from the military I think the higher E may be keeping my joints a bit more happy then they’d be if it was lower. When I crashed it everything hurt all over my body worse then normal.

Funnily enough, while I was suffering from the crashed E, my back dried out and I was not getting any acne. Gyno isn’t gonna go away for me without the surgery i think. I’ve real Rolaxifine can shrink it but it seems like that only for newer onset.

Edit 1: so the whole reason I wanted to take the Anavar was to try and speed up the recovery and strengthening of my hamstrings. they’ve always been a lagging muscle group for me and lately have been incredibly tight and sore/achey. I felt like Anavar was the most bang for your buck with increased collagen synthesis and a relative lack of sides in regards to E. If you were going to take an additional compound for this purpose would you add in to your trt?

Edit 2: what’s your take on cialis as a preworkout?

Edit 3: do you have experience running hgh?

Edit 4:

This video kind of sums up where my heads at on this. Of optimal levels are 25 and mines an 8 that seems suboptimal lol

 

[Deucalion]

No disrespect taken dude, I asked you and you gave me your opinion lol.

So I take hcg 2x a week on mon/fri and both are at 500iu a dose. I can tell the difference in my skin around the hcg dose. Mid week Im looking pretty dry for the most part and the acne settles down. My wife and I may want more kids so I’m not ready to stop taking hcg, I also don’t really want my nuts to be shut down and shrivel up. Some guys don’t care but that doesn’t seem like something I could handle mentally lol

That sounds fucking brutal about the estrogen. After I crashed mine it has been something that I still think about every now and then because it was just so physically and mentally miserable.

What do you aim to keep your e2 levels at? I definitely feel way better with it being in that 40-50 range than I did when I was trying to bring it down. I’ve read some guys want to stay up around 60 because they just feel better, some don’t want it over 20. With all the injuries from the military I think the higher E may be keeping my joints a bit more happy then they’d be if it was lower. When I crashed it everything hurt all over my body worse then normal.

Funnily enough, while I was suffering from the crashed E, my back dried out and I was not getting any acne. Gyno isn’t gonna go away for me without the surgery i think. I’ve real Rolaxifine can shrink it but it seems like that only for newer onset.

Edit 1: so the whole reason I wanted to take the Anavar was to try and speed up the recovery and strengthening of my hamstrings. they’ve always been a lagging muscle group for me and lately have been incredibly tight and sore/achey. I felt like Anavar was the most bang for your buck with increased collagen synthesis and a relative lack of sides in regards to E. If you were going to take an additional compound for this purpose would you add in to your trt?

Edit 2: what’s your take on cialis as a preworkout?

Edit 3: do you have experience running hgh?

Edit 4:

This video kind of sums up where my heads at on this. Of optimal levels are 25 and mines an 8 that seems suboptimal lol

I think you must have just annihilated your E2 ... I am fine with E2 a little high on blasts, 40-60 is nice, a small amount of acne before AI doses, but nothing substantial 1-2 pimples on back no spicy nips. On TRT though, I like it 25-35 is what I have found out through blood work feels the best. I think you brought it down too fast, maybe it is because you do not have a great SHBG buffer and you are E2 sensitive.

I think anavar for the reasons you listed would be great and probably the right choice for you. However understand it will displace T off the AR(androgen receptor) causing an influx in Free T,T,E2 eventually, and DHT. This is why it would be best for you to learn to manage E2 before adding, IN MY OPINION.

I just saw someone talking about potentially building a tolerance to pde 5 inhibitors which is scary to me I doubt low dose would cause this fast though. I am not sure if the pump and blood flow is worth it in my opinion, but have also never tried at the gym. I used viagra once 25 mg and was hard for hours with no stimulation, so it seems like a no-go for me at the gym...
I have zero experience with HGH man sorry, it is the next thing I would like to learn about I am more into HGH secretagogue like ipam or cjc1295.

You are changing my opinion for SHBG a little I see the importance of trying to optimize it in the presence of TRT not so much a blast. I am not fully convinced it will have a big impact though. I think managing your E2 would be best for you and if you plan on TRTing long undecanoate may be better for you. I would be very careful with T3 a study I read said micro-doses of T3 helped a little with SHBG too much and it affects insulin then negatively impacts SHBG same with T4 (thyroxine).
I also do not like how he said it will have all these effects as if our free T is going from 1000 then down to 10 every injections if SHBG isn't in check. If you use no ester or propionate I would understand but having a longer ester like cyp or eth kind of negates this... Plus for you using cyp DAILY, there is no way you are having huge spikes or dips...

I am all for optimizing but you are having real sides/ issues now. I think you need to consider using a VERY low-dose AI.

 

[Rampage0331]

I think you must have just annihilated your E2 ... I am fine with E2 a little high on blasts, 40-60 is nice, a small amount of acne before AI doses, but nothing substantial 1-2 pimples on back no spicy nips. On TRT though, I like it 25-35 is what I have found out through blood work feels the best. I think you brought it down too fast, maybe it is because you do not have a great SHBG buffer and you are E2 sensitive.

I think anavar for the reasons you listed would be great and probably the right choice for you. However understand it will displace T off the AR(androgen receptor) causing an influx in Free T,T,E2 eventually, and DHT. This is why it would be best for you to learn to manage E2 before adding, IN MY OPINION.

I just saw someone talking about potentially building a tolerance to pde 5 inhibitors which is scary to me I doubt low dose would cause this fast though. I am not sure if the pump and blood flow is worth it in my opinion, but have also never tried at the gym. I used viagra once 25 mg and was hard for hours with no stimulation, so it seems like a no-go for me at the gym...
I have zero experience with HGH man sorry, it is the next thing I would like to learn about I am more into HGH secretagogue like ipam or cjc1295.

You are changing my opinion for SHBG a little I see the importance of trying to optimize it in the presence of TRT not so much a blast. I am not fully convinced it will have a big impact though. I think managing your E2 would be best for you and if you plan on TRTing long undecanoate may be better for you. I would be very careful with T3 a study I read said micro-doses of T3 helped a little with SHBG too much and it affects insulin then negatively impacts SHBG same with T4 (thyroxine).
I also do not like how he said it will have all these effects as if our free T is going from 1000 then down to 10 every injections if SHBG isn't in check. If you use no ester or propionate I would understand but having a longer ester like cyp or eth kind of negates this... Plus for you using cyp DAILY, there is no way you are having huge spikes or dips...

I am all for optimizing but you are having real sides/ issues now. I think you need to consider using a VERY low-dose AI.

Ok so you’re definitely making me think about trying the AI again. So you’d say try to take 1/8th of a .25 mg pill? Is that even possible without it getting destroyed and turning into mush? And let’s say that wasn’t overpowering and I felt good, what would you think I’d want the frequency on that dose to be? Like 2x a week? I wish I could just get bloodwork done every week for a bit and get some solid data to back this all up, but I feel like that would be super expensive. Maybe I can just get the E2 tested a few times as I try different AI doses and see how much that would be.

I got some cialis, mainly to see if it alleviates symptoms of BPH I think I have. I forgot to mention that, this is another reason why I went down the SHBG rabbit hole because I think in addition to converting to estrogen too quickly I think the same thing is happening with DHT. I’m 33 and shouldn’t be feeling like I’m having a hard time getting all my piss out lol . It’s not all the time but it does happen sometimes. So I figured cialis sounds like the safest option to reduce bph symptoms. Lower blood pressure and then get some stupid gym pumps aswell.

I tired the hgh releasing peptides and wasn’t a huge fan. Ghrp made me so uncontrollably hungry I’d have eaten a cardboard box. I didn’t notice a difference on cjc. I just stared hgh two days ago and idk if it’s placebo but I feel fucking amazing. Great mood, high energy, already can see a difference in my abdominal leanness. It seems really fast to see results so I’m wondering if it’s all in my head. I’m hoping this shit will be a game changer and help heal up all my injuries from the military. We’ll see.

Can you explain why testosterone Undeconate would be better? I have a decent understanding of ester length but I would love to hear you kind of break that down for me so I can have a better understanding. I’ve already leaned a lot through talking to you so I appreciate all of the information and would like to try to get as much out of this as I can.

 

[Deucalion]

Ok so you’re definitely making me think about trying the AI again. So you’d say try to take 1/8th of a .25 mg pill? Is that even possible without it getting destroyed and turning into mush? And let’s say that wasn’t overpowering and I felt good, what would you think I’d want the frequency on that dose to be? Like 2x a week? I wish I could just get bloodwork done every week for a bit and get some solid data to back this all up, but I feel like that would be super expensive. Maybe I can just get the E2 tested a few times as I try different AI doses and see how much that would be.

I got some cialis, mainly to see if it alleviates symptoms of BPH I think I have. I forgot to mention that, this is another reason why I went down the SHBG rabbit hole because I think in addition to converting to estrogen too quickly I think the same thing is happening with DHT. I’m 33 and shouldn’t be feeling like I’m having a hard time getting all my piss out lol . It’s not all the time but it does happen sometimes. So I figured cialis sounds like the safest option to reduce bph symptoms. Lower blood pressure and then get some stupid gym pumps aswell.

I tired the hgh releasing peptides and wasn’t a huge fan. Ghrp made me so uncontrollably hungry I’d have eaten a cardboard box. I didn’t notice a difference on cjc. I just stared hgh two days ago and idk if it’s placebo but I feel fucking amazing. Great mood, high energy, already can see a difference in my abdominal leanness. It seems really fast to see results so I’m wondering if it’s all in my head. I’m hoping this shit will be a game changer and help heal up all my injuries from the military. We’ll see.

Can you explain why testosterone Undeconate would be better? I have a decent understanding of ester length but I would love to hear you kind of break that down for me so I can have a better understanding. I’ve already leaned a lot through talking to you so I appreciate all of the information and would like to try to get as much out of this as I can.

I have a pill cutter to cut it into 8ths, it is difficult but it works. I honestly think it is the ratio 500mg test with a higher E2 feels fine but TRT dose and a low normal feels off. I wouldn't worry about frequency until you see how 1/8th affects you and makes you feel. I would say 2x a week but try once, wait a week, and see. Like I said you have to gauge your body man, E2 is difficult for some people to control.

Ah I see, I suppose no harm in giving cialis a try. Except for unexpected take off outside the home... I would not rely on cialis to control bp its bp duration of action is low, plus not a huge effect some studies said 1 point systolic...

Yea, I have heard amazing things about HGH, just so expensive + seems life long type of therapy though which scares me.

As you can see it is just so much better for a more stable release. Even cyp or eth have spikes, daily injections would reduce these, but undecanoate appears so consistent. Best for TRT because of how long this ester lasts, however, I have seen individuals mix esters like undecanoate and then blast small amounts of Cyp or Eth on top. The problem would be starting undec, as it would take 1-2 weeks (per graph one week but idk if I believe that given what I hear people say...)

 

[Rampage0331]

I have a pill cutter to cut it into 8ths, it is difficult but it works. I honestly think it is the ratio 500mg test with a higher E2 feels fine but TRT dose and a low normal feels off. I wouldn't worry about frequency until you see how 1/8th affects you and makes you feel. I would say 2x a week but try once, wait a week, and see. Like I said you have to gauge your body man, E2 is difficult for some people to control.

Ah I see, I suppose no harm in giving cialis a try. Except for unexpected take off outside the home... I would not rely on cialis to control bp its bp duration of action is low, plus not a huge effect some studies said 1 point systolic...

Yea, I have heard amazing things about HGH, just so expensive + seems life long type of therapy though which scares me.

As you can see it is just so much better for a more stable release. Even cyp or eth have spikes, daily injections would reduce these, but undecanoate appears so consistent. Best for TRT because of how long this ester lasts, however, I have seen individuals mix esters like undecanoate and then blast small amounts of Cyp or Eth on top. The problem would be starting undec, as it would take 1-2 weeks (per graph one week but idk if I believe that given what I hear people say...)

View attachment 2415

I’m gonna look into undecanoate and get a pill cutter. I’ve never even heard of it until you brought it up. I like the control of the daily injections with the cyp.

So for the hgh I guess it depends on if you go pharma or not but after all the research I’ve done as long as it’s tested then the ugl HGH is just as good and a fraction of the cost. If you’re gonna blast that shit either way it’ll be expensive but to run 1-2iu a day isn’t bad and it seems like it is well worth the cost.

 

[Rampage0331]

I have a pill cutter to cut it into 8ths, it is difficult but it works. I honestly think it is the ratio 500mg test with a higher E2 feels fine but TRT dose and a low normal feels off. I wouldn't worry about frequency until you see how 1/8th affects you and makes you feel. I would say 2x a week but try once, wait a week, and see. Like I said you have to gauge your body man, E2 is difficult for some people to control.

Ah I see, I suppose no harm in giving cialis a try. Except for unexpected take off outside the home... I would not rely on cialis to control bp its bp duration of action is low, plus not a huge effect some studies said 1 point systolic...

Yea, I have heard amazing things about HGH, just so expensive + seems life long type of therapy though which scares me.

As you can see it is just so much better for a more stable release. Even cyp or eth have spikes, daily injections would reduce these, but undecanoate appears so consistent. Best for TRT because of how long this ester lasts, however, I have seen individuals mix esters like undecanoate and then blast small amounts of Cyp or Eth on top. The problem would be starting undec, as it would take 1-2 weeks (per graph one week but idk if I believe that given what I hear people say...)

View attachment 2415

What is the optimal time to do bloodwork after an AI dose to see where your levels are actually at when dialing it in?

 

[Deucalion]

I’m gonna look into undecanoate and get a pill cutter. I’ve never even heard of it until you brought it up. I like the control of the daily injections with the cyp.

So for the hgh I guess it depends on if you go pharma or not but after all the research I’ve done as long as it’s tested then the ugl HGH is just as good and a fraction of the cost. If you’re gonna blast that shit either way it’ll be expensive but to run 1-2iu a day isn’t bad and it seems like it is well worth the cost.

I agree the lack of control with undec is worrisome, but the stability haha...

Good to know, just the mental effects and the healing effects seem great. The glucose control seems like another layer though.

I am not 100% sure man, I would say 24ish hours after, only because I saw something that said a 70% reduction in E2 with a 1mg dose of Arimidex occurred at that time interval. I would probably not want to exceed 24 hours by too much because half-life is 30-60hrs but full duration is as long as 6 days after the fact. This is why it is so harsh on E2 because it takes a lot of liver passes to become inactive.

 

[Rampage0331]

I agree the lack of control with undec is worrisome, but the stability haha...

Good to know, just the mental effects and the healing effects seem great. The glucose control seems like another layer though.

I am not 100% sure man, I would say 24ish hours after, only because I saw something that said a 70% reduction in E2 with a 1mg dose of Arimidex occurred at that time interval. I would probably not want to exceed 24 hours by too much because half-life is 30-60hrs but full duration is as long as 6 days after the fact. This is why it is so harsh on E2 because it takes a lot of liver passes to become inactive.

Ok, so then in theory that 1/8 of a .25 could be enough to drop me down to like a 30 and keep me around there for the week, but it would slowly creep back by day 7

 

[Deucalion]

Ok, so then in theory that 1/8 of a .25 could be enough to drop me down to like a 30 and keep me around there for the week, but it would slowly creep back by day 7

Haha I love how you did the math, yes, in theory, it should drop it to just over 30, after 24 hours... You may have another drop in the next 24+ hours but it should be less of a hit. You will start the serious downtrend of therapeutic effect at the 30-60 hour mark when half of it will be eliminated. I would maybe plan to take it with your hcg, this way at the 24-hour mark both the hcg and AI will be peaking. Since you daily pin test no real time frame to manipulate there.

 

[Rampage0331]

Haha I love how you did the math, yes, in theory, it should drop it to just over 30, after 24 hours... You may have another drop in the next 24+ hours but it should be less of a hit. You will start the serious downtrend of therapeutic effect at the 30-60 hour mark when half of it will be eliminated. I would maybe plan to take it with your hcg, this way at the 24-hour mark both the hcg and AI will be peaking. Since you daily pin test no real time frame to manipulate there.

lol yea I’m getting super detailed over here

So if I was to take the AI on the days I use the hcg could they balance eachother out so there is no spike in estrogen? I know the numbers won’t be exact but it could be pretty close. Thank you for throwing that out there, I never thought about it like that but it’s a great idea

 

[Deucalion]

lol yea I’m getting super detailed over here

So if I was to take the AI on the days I use the hcg could they balance eachother out so there is no spike in estrogen? I know the numbers won’t be exact but it could be pretty close. Thank you for throwing that out there, I never thought about it like that but it’s a great idea

Hmm I think I would take it with hcg once, see what it does for you. Idk how fast your E2 bounces back and I would wait after that one dose and see 1. if it decreases your sides at all 2. If it does when those sides start to return.
I feel like you are too technical haha, you gotta play the game with it. It is all about how you feel, numbers are great but sides/ mental feeling is really what should be used to titrate doses/frequency.

 

[Rampage0331]

Hmm I think I would take it with hcg once, see what it does for you. Idk how fast your E2 bounces back and I would wait after that one dose and see 1. if it decreases your sides at all 2. If it does when those sides start to return.
I feel like you are too technical haha, you gotta play the game with it. It is all about how you feel, numbers are great but sides/ mental feeling is really what should be used to titrate doses/frequency.

Ok solid I think I’ll try that and see what’s up. I appreciate all the help dude! When I have questions I’m just gonna come back to this thread and ask you stuff lol

 

[Deucalion]

Ok solid I think I’ll try that and see what’s up. I appreciate all the help dude! When I have questions I’m just gonna come back to this thread and ask you stuff lol

Haha of course, let us know how it goes for you man!

 

[jumdumpster]

Haha of course, let us know how it goes for you man!

you gave so much good info here
as basic as it sounds, how do you know all of this? studying in your free time? school?