Second cycle?

[KillTheKing]

I know it's too early to really decide anything, but I'm just looking for some advice. I'm 5 weeks into a 16 week cycle of 400mg test c. Things are going pretty good so far. I've put on about 10lbs and people are starting to notice which really helps when you start feeling like nothing is happening. Anyways, what would be a good second cycle? I'm wanting to gain more size and muscle and maybe tighten up a little. I know a lot of this weight is just me force feeding myself. I'm getting blood work done in a week or two to see how things are really going. Suppose everything is looking good, what would be a good second cycle?

 

[Lord]

I am here!

 

[Lord]

So with your current cycle u could add whatever you want in this cycle . The reason I say that is that steroids are hormones that are derived from testosterone. Be it ur first cycle or tenth cycle the only thing that changes is the current dose ur body can handle . So if ur a newbie u want to use the less beneficial dose ur body can tolerate . Then over time as ur musculature increases , your weight , or tolerance then you increase the doses .

 

[KillTheKing]

I wouldn't say it's made up but I've only used 1 other source seeing how this will be my second cycle ever lol. I was asking because I might try taking advantage of the sale. Ok so my first cycle has been 400mg test c a week and recently using a little Aromasin. I'm about 5 weeks into a 16ish week cycle. I've gained a little over 10lbs last time I checked but I know a lot of that might be water weight when it's all said and done. I'll be doing blood work in 2 weeks to see where everything is really at. Assuming it's all good and I do another cycle in a few months where do I start? I want to add muscle, strength, and definition and not be so fluffy. I guess that's everyone's ideal goal? So without going overboard with a bunch of hg or orals and all that, what are some suggestions? Up the test obviously. Mast? Primo? Eq? Thanks

 

[KillTheKing]

Let's keep it here lol. But yes I know I could technically add anything. That's why I'm asking for advice for the best things and dosage to use

 

[Deucalion]

The standard answer is when you plateau on the 400mg test during your 16-week cycle bump it up to 500mg/wk.
2nd cycle is test 500mg/ wk + anavar standard.

5 weeks is meh, you are still learning the basics man, unless you are on TRT prior? You need to manage e2 sides, bp, hct, etc. I am glad you are getting labs so you can see how well you are doing in that regard.


For my second cycle, I think I am going to do Test 500, Mast or Primo + Anadrol + CJC+Ipam, I don't want to take HGH but a secretagogue should be better, less effective but less sides.
I still have a couple months so still finalizing, but I get it, next time there are deals on gear I am gonna jump too haha.

I have been looking into Anadrol injectable, lots of potentially serious sides, like turning your liver and spleen cells into bags of blood, but I hear it is great for bulking and putting on the muscle quickly!

 

[KillTheKing]

The standard answer is when you plateau on the 400mg test during your 16-week cycle bump it up to 500mg/wk.
2nd cycle is test 500mg/ wk + anavar standard.

5 weeks is meh, you are still learning the basics man, unless you are on TRT prior? You need to manage e2 sides, bp, hct, etc. I am glad you are getting labs so you can see how well you are doing in that regard.


For my second cycle, I think I am going to do Test 500, Mast or Primo + Anadrol + CJC+Ipam, I don't want to take HGH but a secretagogue should be better, less effective but less sides.
I still have a couple months so still finalizing, but I get it, next time there are deals on gear I am gonna jump too haha.

I have been looking into Anadrol injectable, lots of potentially serious sides, like turning your liver and spleen cells into bags of blood, but I hear it is great for bulking and putting on the muscle quickly!

Nope, no prior experience or trt. I went to have blood work because I had low t symptoms. My test was 190! The doctor said come back in a week and we'll see what it is. Well, it was 210! She said it's coming up so let's see what it's at in 6 months. I said screw that and got on 400 a week. But yeah I'm doing everything as responsible as possible and I can afford. So my next cycle is going to be more test, mast or primo, and possible something else. Open to advice.

 

[Aoi_116]

Think of testosterone as the parent hormone - what all other hormones are based off of. The further you get away from test you’ll find that while other compounds are incredibly anabolic they often come with a whole host of side effects that take an incredible amount of effort to manage.

If I were to do it all over again, I would stick with test and bump it up incrementally with every cycle and avoid all the exotic shit. Test is cheap, effective, and does everything well while being well tolerated. And it makes you grow like a motherfucker. Additionally its estrogenic which is hugely beneficial on many levels.

Once you reach the point of diminishing returns with test, ie sides become too much, incorporate primo as an addition. Expensive as it is, it’s a slow muscle builder and AI in one. Very effective with minimal sides and replaces the need for ancillaries. As you become more advanced, maybe introduce a safe(ish) 19nor like npp.

For right now though, imo, push as far as you can on straight test. It is a very underrated and highly enjoyable compound.

 

[Deucalion]

Think of testosterone as the parent hormone - what all other hormones are based off of. The further you get away from test you’ll find that while other compounds are incredibly anabolic they often come with a whole host of side effects that take an incredible amount of effort to manage.

If I were to do it all over again, I would stick with test and bump it up incrementally with every cycle and avoid all the exotic shit. Test is cheap, effective, and does everything well while being well tolerated. And it makes you grow like a motherfucker. Additionally its estrogenic which is hugely beneficial on many levels.

Once you reach the point of diminishing returns with test, ie sides become too much, incorporate primo as an addition. Expensive as it is, it’s a slow muscle builder and AI in one. Very effective with minimal sides and replaces the need for ancillaries. As you become more advanced, maybe introduce a safe(ish) 19nor like npp.

For right now though, imo, push as far as you can on straight test. It is a very underrated and highly enjoyable compound.

I do not necessarily disagree with you on upping test incrementally and keeping it simple, that definitely seems the ideal route. However, and I would like your input on this, I could be mistaken and being brosciencey, I hit a plateau pretty quickly on test. I started at 300 for idk 8 weeksish and had to jump up to 500mg/wk to continue the gains, hit another plateau quickly and like an idiot looking back, added anavar my last 2ish weeks which definitely helped the gains.

bumping my test from 300 to 500 barely made a difference, I can not see my second cycle being a good one if I were to lets say do test at 750mg/ wk only, I feel like I would plateau very quickly again. Compared to the bump I got with the anavar + test.

 

[ChevoGuap]

Second cycle really depends on your goals man. How much risk are you willing to take? How much water are you willing to hold? Are you cool with adding some fat?

You usually don’t want to add a bunch of drugs at once. Get halfway thru the cycle, see how it feels, check your bloodwork, THEN add something else. Or you could always just take more test.

Most common 2nd cycles that are relatively safe are like….
- Test / EQ (very long half-life. Needs to be 18+ weeks)
- Test / Primo (slow and steady gains. Primo is more expensive than other stuff though)
- Test / Deca (Gonna look more full and fluffy. Could give you estrogen problems)
- Test / Mast (might lose some hair, might not. Mast feels good though)

 

[Deucalion]

Second cycle really depends on your goals man. How much risk are you willing to take? How much water are you willing to hold? Are you cool with adding some fat?

You usually don’t want to add a bunch of drugs at once. Get halfway thru the cycle, see how it feels, check your bloodwork, THEN add something else. Or you could always just take more test.

Most common 2nd cycles that are relatively safe are like….
- Test / EQ (very long half-life. Needs to be 18+ weeks)
- Test / Primo (slow and steady gains. Primo is more expensive than other stuff though)
- Test / Deca (Gonna look more full and fluffy. Could give you estrogen problems)
- Test / Mast (might lose some hair, might not. Mast feels good though)

What are your thoughts on anadrol injection?

 

[KillTheKing]

I think I'm probably just going to spend the extra money, or hopefully use store credit, and do test/primo and maybe anavar. Maybe 600/300? Can that be like an 8 or 10 week cycle? I've been losing my hair for years so there's no saving it now, but I'd like to keep what I have for as long as possible so mast might not be the best.

 

[Aoi_116]

I do not necessarily disagree with you on upping test incrementally and keeping it simple, that definitely seems the ideal route. However, and I would like your input on this, I could be mistaken and being brosciencey, I hit a plateau pretty quickly on test. I started at 300 for idk 8 weeksish and had to jump up to 500mg/wk to continue the gains, hit another plateau quickly and like an idiot looking back, added anavar my last 2ish weeks which definitely helped the gains.

bumping my test from 300 to 500 barely made a difference, I can not see my second cycle being a good one if I were to lets say do test at 750mg/ wk only, I feel like I would plateau very quickly again. Compared to the bump I got with the anavar + test.

It’s very, very hard to argue with the strength gains and overall feeling you get with orals. Nothing makes a blast like orals, but the reality is that they’re better utilized when you’re cutting. In a hypertrophy cycle you’re better off using food and recovery over time to make real gains that you’ll keep. Increase calories first and if the scale isn’t moving, then increase your dosage.

Say you add x amount of calories but that still doesnt move the scale; that might mean you need to go higher, and possibly pushing something like 750mg/week. That’s an arbitrary number but you get the idea. My happy medium is a 1g a week, but it’s different for everyone.

Orals and some other compounds provide an almost immediate response. Don’t assume that the immediate strength you get is tissue accrual, because it’s not. Tissue accrual takes time - like 8 weeks minimum to see anything noticeable, which is longer than the recommendation to run orals.

Not knocking your decisions to run what you’ve run. Fuck knows I’ve made a gazillion mistakes. Imo orals are great but better reserved when your calories are low and it’s hard to maintain the same level of training intensity you had when putting on muscle. Plus they’re very hard on organs and bloodwork

 

[RasputinOP]

I know it's too early to really decide anything, but I'm just looking for some advice. I'm 5 weeks into a 16 week cycle of 400mg test c. Things are going pretty good so far. I've put on about 10lbs and people are starting to notice which really helps when you start feeling like nothing is happening. Anyways, what would be a good second cycle? I'm wanting to gain more size and muscle and maybe tighten up a little. I know a lot of this weight is just me force feeding myself. I'm getting blood work done in a week or two to see how things are really going. Suppose everything is looking good, what would be a good second cycle?

Im just a couple months ahead of you in experience, on my 2nd cycle now. I went with 350mg test C and 350mg NPP per week (1:1 because Im a hyper responder to test, do not do 1:1 if you arent). And 50mg proviron ED. So far it has been the BOMB. You do have to pin ideally every day, at a minimum you can do EOD. Im doing 5 days a week.

Im not sure how much the proviron is doing for me. Im approaching week 5 so Ill be getting bloods very soon. Honestly if I dont see like a 10-20% increase in free test from the proviron im probably gonna drop it and try out some anavar I have for a couple weeks.

NPP though is good shit, added 40lbs to my bench in 4 weeks. Im gaining noticeable size everywhere in this short amount of time. My bloods will tell me how Im really doing, but Ive had zero sides so far, apart from when I had to dial in my AI dosage again.

 

[KillTheKing]

Im just a couple months ahead of you in experience, on my 2nd cycle now. I went with 350mg test C and 350mg NPP per week (1:1 because Im a hyper responder to test, do not do 1:1 if you arent). And 50mg proviron ED. So far it has been the BOMB. You do have to pin ideally every day, at a minimum you can do EOD. Im doing 5 days a week.

Im not sure how much the proviron is doing for me. Im approaching week 5 so Ill be getting bloods very soon. Honestly if I dont see like a 10-20% increase in free test from the proviron im probably gonna drop it and try out some anavar I have for a couple weeks.

NPP though is good shit, added 40lbs to my bench in 4 weeks. Im gaining noticeable size everywhere in this short amount of time. My bloods will tell me how Im really doing, but Ive had zero sides so far, apart from when I had to dial in my AI dosage again.

Well I had pre cycle blood done and my test was 210! Not sure what my free test was. After 6 weeks on 400mg test c a week my test was 2690 and free was 909. Not sure if that's hyper responder or not lol. I've gained 10lbs last time I checked 2 weeks ago and everyone keeps saying I look different. My shoulders and back have really filled out. So I think I'm going to go with 4 or 500 test and 300 npp next. I have some Primo, so I'll probably do 2 or 300 primo too. My E2 was 92 but I'm getting that dialed in. Hopefully the primo will help with that next cycle.

 

[RasputinOP]

Well I had pre cycle blood done and my test was 210! Not sure what my free test was. After 6 weeks on 400mg test c a week my test was 2690 and free was 909. Not sure if that's hyper responder or not lol. I've gained 10lbs last time I checked 2 weeks ago and everyone keeps saying I look different. My shoulders and back have really filled out. So I think I'm going to go with 4 or 500 test and 300 npp next. I have some Primo, so I'll probably do 2 or 300 primo too. My E2 was 92 but I'm getting that dialed in. Hopefully the primo will help with that next cycle.

Thats a 6.7x multiplier, which is about average, maybe sliightly above if you look at the bloodwork section. On 400mg Test C my bloods were 5020ng, 12.5x.

Youre looking at the wrong thing for free test. Free androgen index maybe? Mine was 713 but thats a ratio of test to SHBG. My free test was 189ng/dL. Which was proportional to what my free test and total test were when I was natural.

I wouldnt underestimate the water weight. I gained about 8lbs of water instantly both times. And I did look noticeably smaller when I cycled off and lost that water.

I would only add 1 new injectable at a time if I were you. Maybe add one of the compounds, get bloods at week 5 or so and if it looks good add the other one.

 

[KillTheKing]

Thats a 6.7x multiplier, which is about average, maybe sliightly above if you look at the bloodwork section. On 400mg Test C my bloods were 5020ng, 12.5x.

Youre looking at the wrong thing for free test. Free androgen index maybe? Mine was 713 but thats a ratio of test to SHBG. My free test was 189ng/dL. Which was proportional to what my free test and total test were when I was natural.

I wouldnt underestimate the water weight. I gained about 8lbs of water instantly both times. And I did look noticeably smaller when I cycled off and lost that water.

I would only add 1 new injectable at a time if I were you. Maybe add one of the compounds, get bloods at week 5 or so and if it looks good add the other one.

Like I said, my levels were 190 one week and 210 the next before I started. I think if I would have had any where near normal test levels before starting, this would have been much higher. I might add the primo for these last 10 weeks and see how that goes. Then I'll know what to look for on my next one when I add npp.