Subcutaneous injections of test....

[NevertooBig]

Hey guys, been cruising for over 6 years now. Came across an article about sub q injections of test being just as or more effective than muscular injections and really wanted to know what you guys thought.
https://www.t-nation.com/pharma/get-20-better-results-from-testosterone
Read it and let me know. I don’t wanna sound like a pussy by after 6 years my injections sound like there are going into styrofoam and to be able to pin into fat would be a game changer for me.

 

[Swole_Guacamole]

Subcutaneous injections are less bioavailable, they are just done more often for TRT because doing intramuscular injections causes more scar tissue and pain over a long term, which is what TRT is meant for anyways

 

[Cfnj]

Swole Guacamole" pid='14590' dateline='1527191758:

Subcutaneous injections are less bioavailable, they are just done more often for TRT because doing intramuscular injections causes more scar tissue and pain over a long term, which is what TRT is meant for anyways

I’m not sure that sc is less efficient. Here’s a paper (yes, small n, and it’s FTM transsexuals) showing 100mg cyp per week landing at about 900 ng/dl TT:
https://academic.oup.com/jes/article/1/8/1095/3988127

 

[chrysler211]

Cfnj" pid='14630' dateline='1527201661:

Swole Guacamole" pid='14590' dateline='1527191758:

Subcutaneous injections are less bioavailable, they are just done more often for TRT because doing intramuscular injections causes more scar tissue and pain over a long term, which is what TRT is meant for anyways

I’m not sure that sc is less efficient. Here’s a paper (yes, small n, and it’s FTM transsexuals) showing 100mg cyp per week landing at about 900 ng/dl TT:
https://academic.oup.com/jes/article/1/8/1095/3988127

The study was done on FTM transgenders. Biological women have higher multipliers for Test injections.

 

[system]

chrysler211" pid='14636' dateline='1527202753:

Cfnj" pid='14630' dateline='1527201661:

Swole Guacamole" pid='14590' dateline='1527191758:

Subcutaneous injections are less bioavailable, they are just done more often for TRT because doing intramuscular injections causes more scar tissue and pain over a long term, which is what TRT is meant for anyways

I’m not sure that sc is less efficient. Here’s a paper (yes, small n, and it’s FTM transsexuals) showing 100mg cyp per week landing at about 900 ng/dl TT:
https://academic.oup.com/jes/article/1/8/1095/3988127

The study was done on FTM transgenders. Biological women have higher multipliers for Test injections.

Does that mean I’m supposed to be a girl if 100 mg puts me even higher than that?

 

[Cfnj]

chrysler211" pid='14636' dateline='1527202753:

Cfnj" pid='14630' dateline='1527201661:

Swole Guacamole" pid='14590' dateline='1527191758:

Subcutaneous injections are less bioavailable, they are just done more often for TRT because doing intramuscular injections causes more scar tissue and pain over a long term, which is what TRT is meant for anyways

I’m not sure that sc is less efficient. Here’s a paper (yes, small n, and it’s FTM transsexuals) showing 100mg cyp per week landing at about 900 ng/dl TT:
https://academic.oup.com/jes/article/1/8/1095/3988127

The study was done on FTM transgenders. Biological women have higher multipliers for Test injections.

New to me, but sounds reasonable. Do you have a citation? I’m interested to see the average female dose-response.

Here’s one in hypogonadal males. 75mg test E per week produced a mean of 550 ng/dl (7.3x multiplier) :

https://www.jsm.jsexmed.org/article/S1743-6095(16)30909-2/fulltext

 

[chrysler211]

Cfnj" pid='14660' dateline='1527208985:

chrysler211" pid='14636' dateline='1527202753:

Cfnj" pid='14630' dateline='1527201661:

Swole Guacamole" pid='14590' dateline='1527191758:

Subcutaneous injections are less bioavailable, they are just done more often for TRT because doing intramuscular injections causes more scar tissue and pain over a long term, which is what TRT is meant for anyways

I’m not sure that sc is less efficient. Here’s a paper (yes, small n, and it’s FTM transsexuals) showing 100mg cyp per week landing at about 900 ng/dl TT:
https://academic.oup.com/jes/article/1/8/1095/3988127

The study was done on FTM transgenders. Biological women have higher multipliers for Test injections.

New to me, but sounds reasonable. Do you have a citation? I’m interested to see the average female dose-response.

Here’s one in hypogonadal males. 75mg test E per week produced a mean of 550 ng/dl (7.3x multiplier) :

https://www.jsm.jsexmed.org/article/S1743-6095(16)30909-2/fulltext

Can’t find the citation for women on testosterone right now.

Maybe I am reading your study wrong but it says the men started on 75mg but ultimately were upped to 100 mg on week 6. Then bloods were taken on week 12. This would be more consistent with the average multiplier of 5 usually observed in such studies for men.

 

[FixerUpper]

People tend to overthink this one quite a bit. The results you’ll see from IM vs. SubQ are roughly the same. We can argue the nuances all we want but at the end of the day, the end results won’t be all that different. Definitely not significant enough for the person to notice.

I’ve used subQ injections for my TRT before and my blood test results were basically the same as they were IM.

 

[flashpass123]

Where would you inject subQ anyway?

 

[Cfnj]

chrysler211" pid='14663' dateline='1527209881:

Cfnj" pid='14660' dateline='1527208985:

chrysler211" pid='14636' dateline='1527202753:

Cfnj" pid='14630' dateline='1527201661:

Swole Guacamole" pid='14590' dateline='1527191758:

Subcutaneous injections are less bioavailable, they are just done more often for TRT because doing intramuscular injections causes more scar tissue and pain over a long term, which is what TRT is meant for anyways

I’m not sure that sc is less efficient. Here’s a paper (yes, small n, and it’s FTM transsexuals) showing 100mg cyp per week landing at about 900 ng/dl TT:
https://academic.oup.com/jes/article/1/8/1095/3988127

The study was done on FTM transgenders. Biological women have higher multipliers for Test injections.

New to me, but sounds reasonable. Do you have a citation? I’m interested to see the average female dose-response.

Here’s one in hypogonadal males. 75mg test E per week produced a mean of 550 ng/dl (7.3x multiplier) :

https://www.jsm.jsexmed.org/article/S1743-6095(16)30909-2/fulltext

Can’t find the citation for women on testosterone right now.

Maybe I am reading your study wrong but it says the men started on 75mg but ultimately were upped to 100 mg on week 6. Then bloods were taken on week 12. This would be more consistent with the average multiplier of 5 usually observed in such studies for men.

At week 6 they switched to either 50 or 100mg based on the lowest TT values for the subject; an attempt to normalize, sort of, which I think is fair to summarize as average dose of 75 mg → avg 550 ng/dl.

Here’s another interesting line from the abstract:
“Mean monthly T dose via SC auto-injector was 25% lower than typical IM.”
I’m assuming they mean sq was more efficient than IM, but don’t have access to the full text. I have a feeling there would be a table in there with precisely the data we’re looking for.

 

[10gramsuvtrenEOD]

NevertooBig" pid='14578' dateline='1527188601:

Hey guys, been cruising for over 6 years now. Came across an article about sub q injections of test being just as or more effective than muscular injections and really wanted to know what you guys thought.
https://www.t-nation.com/pharma/get-20-better-results-from-testosterone
Read it and let me know. I don’t wanna sound like a pussy by after 6 years my injections sound like there are going into styrofoam and to be able to pin into fat would be a game changer for me.

fuk it bro snap crackle n pop ur way to the top

 

[everywhereatonce]

Subq works for some but not others. Don’t try it with miglyol, if you want to try subq use GSO. Anything over TRT test usually makes big lumps. Start out injecting the side of your ass so if you lump up you don’t look diseased or have to sit on the lumps.

 

[NevertooBig]

My initial thinking was because I do larger injections ,2.5 or 3cc at once, if I didn’t inject slowly or deep enough what happens to the oil that doesnt stay in the muscle? I don’t have blood work to prove it but I always felt that if oil came out or I rushed the injection it somehow was less effective. Would you guys agree that as long as the oil is in my body and not in a vein or artery it’s doing what It should? Also yes I would love to just take some slin needles and pin every day sub q instead of the larger injections once a week.

 

[FixerUpper]

NevertooBig" pid='14702' dateline='1527252050:

My initial thinking was because I do larger injections ,2.5 or 3cc at once, if I didn’t inject slowly or deep enough what happens to the oil that doesnt stay in the muscle? I don’t have blood work to prove it but I always felt that if oil came out or I rushed the injection it somehow was less effective. Would you guys agree that as long as the oil is in my body and not in a vein or artery it’s doing what It should? Also yes I would love to just take some slin needles and pin every day sub q instead of the larger injections once a week.

Yes, if the oil is in your body, it’ll do what it’s supposed to do. It’s possible that there may be some small difference in absorption rate, but the same can be said for various IM injection sites as well, so it’s not worth stressing about. Especially with the type of frequency that we are using for our injections.

 

[Bearslovecheese]

everywhereatonce" pid='14696' dateline='1527235200:

Subq works for some but not others. Don’t try it with miglyol, if you want to try subq use GSO. Anything over TRT test usually makes big lumps. Start out injecting the side of your ass so if you lump up you don’t look diseased or have to sit on the lumps.

DO NOT use Mig. Fuck, Tried it twice and wife thought i had tumors on my stomach. Didn’t help that they were 400mg/mL Mig840 injections.

 

[fattosemifit]

I’m on TRT and my experience with SubQ is that my levels were nowhere near the same dosage vs IM injections not even in the same ballpark. This is me using pharma test-e so you know the stuff is dosed correctly. On SubQ injections 60mg every 3.5 days my level peak was 565ng/dl while the same dosage IM got me to 1095ng/dl and feeling way better. There is more anecdotal evidence here, https://forums.steroid.com/hormone-...ison-between-100mg-test-sub-q-im-labwork.html

Not one person in that whole thread was able to achieve the same levels SubQ as they did IM, most of the time the difference, like in my case was extreme.

So take it for what you will but that was my experience with SubQ.

 

[beefnewton]

I use 10mg of Test Prop daily subcutaneously, which keeps my levels in the 600’s. My natural levels are 50’s to low 100’s. Subcutaneous works.

 

[Septicanon]

I inject 3ml of EQ subQ using a 5/8th needle on my quads and I’ve yet to have any problems. Tired of stabbing myself with 25mm pins for the same effect. Sample size n=1 but when I get my testosterone checked I always score waaay higher if I pin subQ over IM.

 

[halfjack]

fattosemifit" pid='14829' dateline='1527367493:

I’m on TRT and my experience with SubQ is that my levels were nowhere near the same dosage vs IM injections not even in the same ballpark. This is me using pharma test-e so you know the stuff is dosed correctly. On SubQ injections 60mg every 3.5 days my level peak was 565ng/dl while the same dosage IM got me to 1095ng/dl and feeling way better. There is more anecdotal evidence here, https://forums.steroid.com/hormone-...ison-between-100mg-test-sub-q-im-labwork.html

Not one person in that whole thread was able to achieve the same levels SubQ as they did IM, most of the time the difference, like in my case was extreme.

So take it for what you will but that was my experience with SubQ.

Could the variable in levels be due to the absorption rates of IM vs Sub-q?

 

[Khanfasa]

that 30 year old boomer at the gym who thinks subq is inferior just because it’s different from what he’s used to