Therapeutic Self Phlebotomy How-to.

[Dexter]

Since today was my monthly self phlebotomy day I thought I’d snap some pictures of my set up and all the things I use to pull this off in less then 20 minutes.

1. arm bench is a sawed in half stair riser, 2x4’s angled for comfort.
2. Clear heavy duty vinyl to cover arm bench and table, 3’x 3’ purchased at walmart for $3.
3. 20g butteryfly needle BD (winged infusion set)
4. 20cc syringe, only used one, but there are more on the table in case of clog.
5. 10ml Edta lavendar top(anticogulant, can use non-gel sodium heparin green top as well) blood tube (used at start of collection by attaching tube to the rubber sleeve covered needle attached to the luer adapter) before attaching syringe. This is collected to estimate hematocrit, a gravity version of the old school method spun-hematocrit in capillary tubes.
6. 12" hemostat-customized by bending the tip using a bench vise to angle it downward to hold the end of the plastic luer adapter attached to butterfly hose. This was attached with moderate force to the plastic luer adapter with four plastic ribs to firmly hold onto the adapter to screw on and off the syringe as they fill with blood. Remember this is a one handed job in many ways.
7. 1 gallon paint bucket double lined with trash bags filled with a pound of kitty liter to absorb blood. Once you’re done collecting, stir blood to expose more kitty liter and then pour more liter into bucket. Add a cup of bleach and stir again, then throw away.
8. Tape. Plastic 3M millipore tape to secure the butterfly needle in place and prevent you from pulling the needle out, as you will need both hands and in this case my right hand to pull back the syringe plunger, the right arm has the needle in it.
9. Gorilla tape to secure the 12" hemostat in place. Make sure to only tape the end holding the luer adapter and one side of the hemostat handle in case you need to adjust the tension on the luer adapter.
10. Tourniquet, alcohol pads, nonstick pad and paper tape to cover the venipuncture site, paper towels and wet ones to clean up.

My monthly routine is typically 250ml removal. However I know that my hemoglobin is high and I went 6 weeks without drawing blood, so I drew out 330ml including the 10ml edta tube.

I do this method solo, no help from anyone. The 12" hemostat is the only way to really do this quickly so the blood doesn’t start clotting, allowing me to screw on and off the syringes quickly. Attaching the hemostat to the vinyl covered arm rest with gorilla tape keeps the hemostat from moving.

The syringe is pointed at a 45 degree angle upward screwed in place using hemostat clamped to the ribbed portion of the hard plastic luer adapter at the end of the butterfly hose. Needle was placed Right AC, plastic tape was used to hold needle in place about 2" from puncture site.

I started by filling 10ml Edta tube first since the rubber sleeve covered needle is attached to the end of the luer adapter, I then pulled the rubber sleeve covered needle out of the luer adapter attached to the hose so I could screw on the syringe.

Then I attached the syringe and fill sixteen 20cc syringes of blood, using my left hand to steady the syringe and my right to pull back the plunger. The syringes of blood were emptied into the trash container. Remember to move fast, blood clots quickly and the process slows drastically. Also a good idea to keep extra syringes around in case you need a fresh one because your syringe is drawing back slowly.

Once you’re done drawing blood, release the tourniquet, grab your nonstick pad + paper tape, pull needle out and place pad/tape over puncture site.

Vinyl covering makes everything extremely easy to clean, wet-ones clean up any blood splatters or spills. Add some more kitty liter to your blood container, 1 cup of bleach and stir around with the 20cc syringe you finished using, tie off bag and toss in trash.

The 10ml Edta tube is used by taping it vertically(in this case taped to my sharps container) and letting it incubate for 3 days at room temp to let the red cells and buffy coat(wbcs) settle to the bottom leaving the plasma volume exposed. 50/50 ratio is fine of rbcs/plasma. If your ratio is drastically off, increased rbcs/decreased plasma, then the phlebotomy will help, but you should probably get a complete blood count ran.

Human body has about 5000ml of blood. A large mass low body fat body builder could expect to have more, obese could possibly have less. 250ml for blood removal each month or 500ml every two months is safe to remove. 5% every month or 10% every two months is safe to remove, more then that you risk tachycardia increasing heart rate to compensate loss of blood volume. This recovers after two weeks and heart rate slows back down. You can expect to lower your blood pressure this way and keep it lowered for 7-10 days.

AAS users store iron at an increased rate, you produce more rbcs, this increase in iron and rbcs isn’t good for long term health. Excess iron is linked to multiple degenerative diseases. The increase in rbcs can have benefit for endurance and high intensity cardio or work at elevation. Erythrocytosis doesn’t appear to be accompanied by an increase in clotting factors, platelets or wbcs. The jury is out on whether increased rbc production is really a health crises, but high blood pressure is. DVT is at increase risk with high hct, the question is if cardio or staying active and on your feet decreases this risk, as DVT is more common for people that are sedentary.

My starting blood pressure before I drew my blood today was 144/97, 12 hours later its 121/78.

 

[propionate]

Everyone who reads this. Please just donate blood instead or talk to a doctor about blood letting.

 

[apexalab]

Ultra-relevant username, OP.
propionate" pid='67863' dateline='1568001056:

Everyone who reads this. Please just donate blood instead or talk to a doctor about blood letting.

I agree, but for the people that will do this on their own without much knowledge, I think this is a valuable resource. Thanks for taking the time to share this, OP.

 

[Dexter]

propionate" pid='67863' dateline='1568001056:

Everyone who reads this. Please just donate blood instead or talk to a doctor about blood letting.

I understand the hesitation.

This was posted for those that want to know how to do this. If your on steroid(s) that causes rapid increase in HCT and you’ve donated blood, and you want to donate again, but you have wait 56 days, this is an option.

Or you could be someone like me who has had bad experience with the Red Cross not placing the needle correctly, going through my vein and only collecting 50ml of blood. I don’t like people that waste my time, if I go through all the trouble of being asked questions, having an idiot mash on my finger with the lancet before he press the button and almost pierces my bone, then I prefer having total control over everything I do to avoid incompetence. If you want numbers before you draw blood, you can pick up a hemoglobinometer for $350 with cuvettes, these point of care analyzers are what Red Cross uses onsite, they typically read a gram higher then your true value.

Benefits of blood donations are testing for HIV, Hep B/C.

Benefits of doing it yourself, no questions to fill out, no appointments, no one wasting our time, you can do it anytime you want 24hrs a day, it’s discrete, and it’s just one more tool to take charge of your life. No different then someone deciding to homebrew steroids, they want more control.

I’ve mentioned in the past that I’ve drawn blood on at least 50,000 patients and have done testing in all departments of the medical laboratory with a lot of experience in blood bank transfusion testing, so I come at this with a level of confidence.

---

Also another thing. I drew off in my case 330ml of blood and then I injected my steroids this morning so I wouldn’t waste a drop of that man juice.

 

[FixerUpper]

Dexter" pid='67858' dateline='1567998524:

Human body has about 5000ml of blood. A large mass low body fat body builder could expect to have more, obese could possibly have less. 250ml for blood removal each month or 500ml every two months is safe to remove. 5% every month or 10% every two months is safe to remove, more then that you risk tachycardia increasing heart rate to compensate loss of blood volume. This recovers after two weeks and heart rate slows back down. You can expect to lower your blood pressure this way and keep it lowered for 7-10 days.

AAS users store iron at an increased rate, you produce more rbcs, this increase in iron and rbcs isn’t good for long term health. Excess iron is linked to multiple degenerative diseases. The increase in rbcs can have benefit for endurance and high intensity cardio or work at elevation. Erythrocytosis doesn’t appear to be accompanied by an increase in clotting factors, platelets or wbcs. The jury is out on whether increased rbc production is really a health crises, but high blood pressure is. DVT is at increase risk with high hct, the question is if cardio or staying active and on your feet decreases this risk, as DVT is more common for people that are sedentary.

My starting blood pressure before I drew my blood today was 144/97, 12 hours later its 121/78.

Good write up for the most part man. I’ve done quite a few self phlebotomies over the years. Definitely not rocket science but it’s helpful to have resources like this, especially for people who don’t have a background in healthcare.

Want to point out a couple of things though. AAS users don’t store more iron than non users. It actually seems to have the opposite effect. Well at least in the case of testosterone, which suppresses hepcidin, and reduces iron stores (ferritin) as a result. Seems likely that other AAS have a similar effect, but I can’t really speak to that.

Because of this reduction in iron stores, I’d caution against donation/phlebotomy every 2 months unless ferritin levels are being regularly monitored. It is very possible for testosterone users (TRT included) to “over donate” and drop ferritin levels too low.

 

[Dexter]

FixerUpper" pid='67886' dateline='1568035785:

AAS users don’t store more iron than non users. It actually seems to have the opposite effect. Well at least in the case of testosterone, which suppresses hepcidin, and reduces iron stores (ferritin) as a result. Seems likely that other AAS have a similar effect, but I can’t really speak to that.

Because of this reduction in iron stores, I’d caution against donation/phlebotomy every 2 months unless ferritin levels are being regularly monitored. It is very possible for testosterone users (TRT included) to “over donate” and drop ferritin levels too low.

Testosterone does suppress hepcidin, however from my understanding is that a suppressed hepcidin increases iron absorption from foods.

Hepcidin is naturally reduced when the body experiences low iron, in order to increase iron absorption from food.

Hepcidin naturally increases when the body recognizes high iron, in order to decrease gastric iron absorption from our diet.

The main point is that AAS- Deca, Eq, Test, all cause androgen mediated erythropoiesis.

Iron is the metal involved in producing hemoglobin. Ferritin is a storage protein found concentrated in other cells such as the liver and immune cells.

Ferritin - is the protein used for intracellular iron storage. This is a storage reserves the body can use to produce more hemoglobin.

70% of iron stores are found in circulating red blood cells, which have a 120 day life cycle and then are destroyed by the spleen and then iron is recycled in the production of more rbcs.
Only 20% of iron is stored mostly as Ferritin.

Iron - is a snap shot of blood iron levels that tend to fluctuate compared to Ferritin levels. Iron(metal) levels tend to be higher in morning.

Reduced Hepacidin…increased iron absoption…increased iron absorption…increase building material for rbcs through androgen mediated erythropoiesis. That is this process works when one isn’t donating blood with any frequency.

---

What does this all mean in the real world to AAS users that drain off blood on a regular basis.

Blood donations can and do cause iron deficiency if they are too frequent.

Donation centers typically only test one parameter - hemoglobin. With frequent donations you could deplete our iron stores and not know it with just a hemoglobin value.

If you want to know if you are safe to donate you could look at your:

Hgb/Hct

MCV, MCH, MCHC,(these are rbc indices part of a Complete Blood Count) making sure they are normal and not low suggesting possible microcytosis brought on by iron deficiency.

Ferritin levels to determine storage of iron. 20% of body reserves.

Those that supplement with iron can expect to increase iron storage and can easily over do it, going the opposite direction in side effects. It’s one of the reasons iron supplements are on the bottom self of any pharmacy. This metal in excess is toxic.

And I’ll end by saying this topic from my past reading is so complex you could type out hundred pages and still not explain it all.

Bottom line, if you drain blood off, get your labs ran regularly, a Ferritin level and a CBC are a good idea every four months to stay safe.

Animal protein contains Heme Iron, it’s not regulated, it allows you to load your blood iron levels faster then plant based non-heme sources of iron that are regulated based on your iron storage needs. Supplements aren’t necessary if you’re eating a healthy diet and running your labs like you’re supposed to.

Ultimately for me draining blood is a trade off. Do I drain blood that is causing my hct to elevate and my blood pressure to increase. Of do I worry about iron stores being depleted. For me personally, I’m gonna drain and eat a couple of juice steaks, run my labs and see how they look. What choice does a person have when their hgb/hct are 20/60, experiencing headaches that are instantly relieved by removing blood volume? I’ll admit to having removed 800mls of blood at one time, my hct was 65%, the only problem was tachycardia that lasted for about two weeks, but my pounding headaches were gone instantly once the blood was removed. High blood pressure is not only a health risk, but it also causes problems with my mood, I become irritable and quick to anger if my blood pressure is elevated. I feel calm and relaxed when it’s low. I wish I could keep it around 100/50 all the time, except when I’m working out. I don’t take blood pressure meds, I’ve experimented with many types and have found them all to make me feel like shit, especially when I’m working out.

 

[Booger]

Bad. Stop. No. Do not do.

 

[Heavyweightmover]

Solid write up. Only thing I disagree with is doing it solo. Grab a friend, girlfriend, coworker. No one has to know you take steroids to do a self phlebotomy. Just say you recently travelled overseas and you were turned down at the blood drive. There are several common reasons to explain the phlebotomy other than steroids.

 

[Dexter]

Heavyweightmover" pid='67976' dateline='1568081869:

Solid write up. Only thing I disagree with is doing it solo. Grab a friend, girlfriend, coworker. No one has to know you take steroids to do a self phlebotomy. Just say you recently travelled overseas and you were turned down at the blood drive. There are several common reasons to explain the phlebotomy other than steroids.

Remember if you have someone help, this is a biohazard, have them wear gloves and be aware of the rubber sleeve covered needle on the end of the luer adapter. And when you pull the needle out of your arm engage the slide on safety device to cover the needle.

Mostly I recommend working solo only because of the potential for needle sticks. Granted if you’ve donated blood before you’re tested for HIV and Hepatitis.

 

[FixerUpper]

Heavyweightmover" pid='67976' dateline='1568081869:

Solid write up. Only thing I disagree with is doing it solo. Grab a friend, girlfriend, coworker. No one has to know you take steroids to do a self phlebotomy. Just say you recently travelled overseas and you were turned down at the blood drive. There are several common reasons to explain the phlebotomy other than steroids.

Very little harm in having a friend there to help, but it’s really not as necessary as people typically make it out to be. Surely it depends on the method you’re using to accomplish the self phlebotomy, but an operation like @“Dexter” posted is actually pretty low risk.

People often say that a partner should be used “in case you pass out, so you don’t bleed out and die”, or something along those lines. However, I can assure you that nobody is going to bleed out (or anywhere close to it) from a 20g needle stick. Assuming that you’re not taking a prescription blood thinner, the blood loss would be quite negligible if you were to pass out.

I’m not saying this procedure is devoid of all risk, but you’d have to try really hard to cause yourself any significant damage by doing it.

 

[unclecurley]

CAN’T WAIT TO READ YOUR GUIDE TO 'D.I.Y. GYNO REMOVAL" NEXT.

SMH

 

[beefnewton]

It’s rather silly how some reactions are so alarmist. I’ve been doing this for years and never had an issue. I use an aquarium dosing pump for peristaltic action, though… and I don’t use butterflies but 16g needles. I’m way too lazy to be filling individual syringes and just let it flow into a 500ml plastic water bottle. Just be very careful, deliberate, and sterile. It’s really quite simple.

 

[Dexter]

beefnewton" pid='68031' dateline='1568127559:

It’s rather silly how some reactions are so alarmist. I’ve been doing this for years and never had an issue. I use an aquarium dosing pump for peristaltic action, though… and I don’t use butterflies but 16g needles. I’m way too lazy to be filling individual syringes and just let it flow into a 500ml plastic water bottle. Just be very careful, deliberate, and sterile. It’s really quite simple.

Fantastic idea. So do you change out your tubing on your pump, or just run some diluted bleach through the line, are you using IV tubing hooked to your pump?

I’d love to rig one these up myself. I do use the same 20cc syringe over and over until I’m done, but yes it’s a bit of a pain. If I had a pump leading to a 1000ml beaker or a bag sat on top of a sensitive digital scale to weigh the blood, I could knock my monthly draw out with little effort.

---

unclecurley" pid='68023' dateline='1568124060:

CAN’T WAIT TO READ YOUR GUIDE TO 'D.I.Y. GYNO REMOVAL" NEXT.

I can do that.

We won’t be able to induce unconsciousness using general anesthetics because propofol can’t be bought using btc, but we could probably find a local like lidocaine.

Take half a gram of fentenyl to take the edge off. Iodine the incision site. Incision under the nipple about 1.25" in length, open it up, take a look inside and start grabbing shit with your forceps pulling out tissue, cut the glands out, when you’re done, suture, take some antibiotics, pain meds as needed.

This does require a helper obviously, so it’s not true DIY project.

g2g.

 

[beefnewton]

I just use new tubing each time and run it to an empty 500ml water bottle, which makes it an easy pint. Let me see if I can post a video of it. I usually record them as a record of when I last did it (because I’ll forget). I do dismantle the pump each time and clean it with alcohol after use. I can’t take credit for the idea. There was an arrogant jackass named BushidoBadBoy on Dat’s old forum that said that’s the way he did it. It’d be more mature of me if I didn’t even mention him in that context, but I’m not mature.

https://gofile.io/?c=W6PD96

There’s the video. I’ve never used that site, so I have no idea how well (or poorly) it will do.

Edit: Yea, that site streams like crap.

 

[Dexter]

beefnewton" pid='68104' dateline='1568168811:

https://gofile.io/?c=W6PD96

There’s the video. I’ve never used that site, so I have no idea how well (or poorly) it will do.

Edit: Yea, that site streams like crap.

That video is a masterpiece of DIY. It’s the kind of genius I like, minimal tools, using stuff that’s not meant to be used. The empty water bottle is a touch of class. I love it.

 

[squattum]

alternatively if you’re as lazy as i am you can just stab yourself with a 16 gauge needle and attach it to a straw that drains until the red cup is full

 

[Gymrat27]

squattum" pid='71190' dateline='1570723506:

alternatively if you’re as lazy as i am you can just stab yourself with a 16 gauge needle and attach it to a straw that drains until the red cup is full

Haha im litteraly omw home from the pharmacy to do this. I figured id check the forum to see if their was anything posted about it first and i was kinda suprised to see all these posts. I had told my buddy i was going to do this since my dr litterally dropped me after i told him i was using anabolics and needed some help. My buddy was like your a fucking psycho dude dont do that. Kinda had me 2nd guessing myself tbh.

 

[DEX]

Gymrat27" pid='86645' dateline='1586293703:

Haha im litteraly omw home from the pharmacy to do this. I figured id check the forum to see if their was anything posted about it first and i was kinda suprised to see all these posts. I had told my buddy i was going to do this since my dr litterally dropped me after i told him i was using anabolics and needed some help. My buddy was like your a fucking psycho dude dont do that. Kinda had me 2nd guessing myself tbh.

Self phlebotomy is very common for people using this stuff. Many doctors won’t help out, blood donation is off the table because hct is too high, you gotta have a script to get someone to do a therapeutic phlebotomy and the doctors won’t write them.

So like everything UGL, you do it yourself when the job has to get done.

It’s very empowering to know you can tackle your own problems, I don’t like messing with doctors.