What would be considered a super responder for 400mg test C?

[RasputinOP]

In terms of blood testosterone levels. 4000ng/dl? 6000ng/dl? I guess whats the point where you would say "this person is responding quite a bit more than average".

 

[BPrime2]

More importantly is how your body physically reacts. Your body could convert at 20x and you could still be skinny or weak or fat. A super responder would grow very strong and/or big quickly and without massive doses.

 

[RasputinOP]

More importantly is how your body physically reacts. Your body could convert at 20x and you could still be skinny or weak or fat. A super responder would grow very strong and/or big quickly and without massive doses.

Well theres 2 aspects to being a super responder right. One is how high your levels go from the substance, and the other is how receptive your muscles are to those levels. Im only asking here about the former. Im aware that the latter is also important.

 

[BPrime2]

Well theres 2 aspects to being a super responder right. One is how high your levels go from the substance, and the other is how receptive your muscles are to those levels. Im only asking here about the former. Im aware that the latter is also important.

There isn't any medical set point as far as I've ever seen, I would say you'd need to see what elite level hyper responders test at (BB/PL/Strongman) vs dose, which would be some incredible data to map. Unfortunately I doubt you could get a statistically relevant sample size of them to tell you the truth, so any dose multiplier is a complete guess at this point.
10x+ across many tests/doses/esters feels like it would probably qualify but that is not a science based hypothesis.

 

[RasputinOP]

There isn't any medical set point as far as I've ever seen, I would say you'd need to see what elite level hyper responders test at (BB/PL/Strongman) vs dose, which would be some incredible data to map. Unfortunately I doubt you could get a statistically relevant sample size of them to tell you the truth, so any dose multiplier is a complete guess at this point.
10x+ across many tests/doses/esters feels like it would probably qualify but that is not a science based hypothesis.

So levels in ng/dl 10x the dose in mg? Is that what that multiplier is in the bloodwork section? I wasnt completely sure.

For me I was on 400mg Test C and bloodwork showed 5020ng/dl 48 hours after last pin. I feel like im a super responder in that regard, just not quite sure about the muscles response to those levels yet.

 

[psauce]

Agreed that response and bloods matter.

As with a lot of AAS information, some of the best guidance on the blood response is in collections like our Bloodwork Forum. You'll often see people include something like "3.5x" in their posts titles. That's a calculation that goes like this:

(Total serum test after protocol has reached steady state) / (Total serum test while natural) = multiplier

We don't have enough of this information to actually compile statistics, so we could be rigorous about this, but we do have enough information to have a sense of when someone is under- or over-responding to their dosage. That is actually really valuable for a number of reasons -- many of them relevant to harm reduction and product quality assessment.

 

[RasputinOP]

Agreed that response and bloods matter.

As with a lot of AAS information, some of the best guidance on the blood response is in collections like our Bloodwork Forum. You'll often see people include something like "3.5x" in their posts titles. That's a calculation that goes like this:

(Total serum test after protocol has reached steady state) / (Total serum test while natural) = multiplier

We don't have enough of this information to actually compile statistics, so we could be rigorous about this, but we do have enough information to have a sense of when someone is under- or over-responding to their dosage. That is actually really valuable for a number of reasons -- many of them relevant to harm reduction and product quality assessment.

Huh, so the multiplier isnt considering the dosage at all? How is that useful? Unless you say "well 400mg test usually nets a 3x multiplier, 600mg test and 200mg tren a 5x multiplier" and so on.

 

[RasputinOP]

Agreed that response and bloods matter.

As with a lot of AAS information, some of the best guidance on the blood response is in collections like our Bloodwork Forum. You'll often see people include something like "3.5x" in their posts titles. That's a calculation that goes like this:

(Total serum test after protocol has reached steady state) / (Total serum test while natural) = multiplier

We don't have enough of this information to actually compile statistics, so we could be rigorous about this, but we do have enough information to have a sense of when someone is under- or over-responding to their dosage. That is actually really valuable for a number of reasons -- many of them relevant to harm reduction and product quality assessment.

Wait now that im reading the bloodwork. Everyone is doing

Total testosterone / dosage
Not
Total testosterone peak cycle / total testosterone natty

 

[bicycleseatsniffer]

Wait now that im reading the bloodwork. Everyone is doing

Total testosterone / dosage
Not
Total testosterone peak cycle / total testosterone natty

Yeah, I have no clue what psauce is talking about. The multiplier is based on the test weekly dosage you're running and the test you're measuring with bloodwork. 2000 total test / cycle of 500mg/week = multiplier of 4. Decent way of gauging if your gear is under/over dosed since the multipliers are pretty consistent.

I've never heard of a "super responder" somehow getting their bloods to show more testosterone than another though - I'd love to see someone take 500mg/week from one source vs a super responder taking the same batch from the same ugl and same qty and doing a blood work comparison.

 

[crtx]

how high is the free t and how high is their igf hormone baseline.

then how do they train, recovery and diet?

its not call drugs and "hyper responders" the above matter.

Gym rats taking grams of gear look like shit are they non responders or is their diet, training and recovery crap.

 

[RasputinOP]

Yeah, I have no clue what psauce is talking about. The multiplier is based on the test weekly dosage you're running and the test you're measuring with bloodwork. 2000 total test / cycle of 500mg/week = multiplier of 4. Decent way of gauging if your gear is under/over dosed since the multipliers are pretty consistent.

I've never heard of a "super responder" somehow getting their bloods to show more testosterone than another though - I'd love to see someone take 500mg/week from one source vs a super responder taking the same batch from the same ugl and same qty and doing a blood work comparison.

Yea my multiplier on LnL test C is 12.55x, with a corresponding increase in free test. Thing is that Ive used 2 vials that I got in completely separate orders from them. May even be different batches. Either im a super responder or they heavily over dosed their stuff. Would be curious to get a blood test while using a vial and then send that vial to get tested and see what the concentration is.

If it is like twice as strong as its supposed to be then im taking like 800mg a week. And my bloods are surprisingly clean for what id expect if I was taking that much.

 

[psauce]

Yeah I don’t know what the fuck I was thinking with the formula, that’s clearly wrong. But the claim was never that dose doesn’t matter… rather that the type of data required to make a single formula tell you whether your response was abnormal simply doesn’t exist. Cooking now, so I gotta avoid adding to one dumb comment with another… more later.

Edit - what I was getting at is that, currently, your best bet is to find someone at about your age with about your natty serum test and (arguably) your history of gear exposure and then compare the multiplier at (or around) the same dose. And while that’s empirically based and better than most comparators, it’s still bro science.

So I appreciate being called out for the clearly erroneous formula, but you’ll never hear me deny the dose-response effect unless they’ve got me at Gitmo and I have to lie to get out.