I strongly agree with Thrasymachus on this one. Everyone using anabolics has to be incredibly careful with respect to their mental health. Androgens are directly neurotoxic in the absence of E2. Too low E2 can make men literally depressed and suicidal. Too high E2 can also make one uncomfortably anxious/irritable. When it comes to ensuring a good E2 level for mental health, AI’s absolutely should not be utilized unless absolutely necessary. In order of best to worst, mitigating high E2 effects can be resolved by the following:Luxferro pretty much hit all the main points of being cautious with AI.
My reason for not using it is that I never felt good on any form of AI, I've used every sort of AI and SERMS. Everytime I was on them I felt off, I did not feel like working out at all. Matter of fact I didn't even feel like getting out of bed.
To me my mental state is important, I get into a dark state easily, I've had suicidal ideation problems in the past including putting a noose around my neck at one time and almost pulling the trigger. So I don't play around with anything that makes me feel down at all. If I use something and it makes me feel off, I note that in my log and I discard it and don't use it again.
So if my E2 is high and I feel good, that's all that matters for me. Mast makes me feel good, so if I need to drop my E2, I just half my dose of T and replace it with Mast and that keeps my mental state in a good place.
Since getting back on TRT and getting one injection a week of 200mg test c my symptoms aren't as bad as when I got my e2 all out of whack, but the once a week surely isn't helping the causeI strongly agree with Thrasymachus on this one. Everyone using anabolics has to be incredibly careful with respect to their mental health. Androgens are directly neurotoxic in the absence of E2. Too low E2 can make men literally depressed and suicidal. Too high E2 can also make one uncomfortably anxious/irritable. When it comes to ensuring a good E2 level for mental health, AI’s absolutely should not be utilized unless absolutely necessary. In order of best to worst, mitigating high E2 effects can be resolved by the following:
1) Increase injection frequency to minimize peaks in aromatase activity
2) Lower your overall dose of “wet” anabolics which aromatize (Test, Nandrolone, Dbol, etc.)
3) Use 1000 mg Calcium D Glucarate, eliminate booze from your diet and improve sleep.
4) Use a low dose of a DHT derivative with anti-estrogenic properties (Primo, Mast),
5) Use a low dose of Aromasin (start at 3.125 mg = a quarter of a 12.5 mg tablet E5D)
6) Use a low dose of anastrozole (0.125 mg E3D)
Ultimately we need to recognize that AI’s are just a tool. That being said, they’re a double-edged sword and can very easily end up hurting you. Crashed E2 can take weeks to recover from depending on how bad your crushed it. Even SERMS aren’t a good option. Enclomiphene makes me seriously depressed and anxious to the point where I can’t focus or do anything at work. Shit sucks.
At an office. If get their gear it's $189 for 5ml. So I'd blow right through that. Of course they won't give me a prescription where I could get 10ml pharma for $18.Yeah once a week isn’t ideal. Too much ups and downs. At least 2x per week would be good so your troughs are a bit more reasonable. Are you injecting yourself or going to a doctor? Might be worth asking if you can go up to 2x per week or ask to do home injections.
Hello There...I can see two main arguments against the use of AI’s. One of them is a bit more reasonable IMO:
1) Certain nonsteroidal AI’s such as anastrozole and letrozole can worsen your lipids directly through a mechanism unrelated to lowered E2. Since anabolics already make our HDL lower and LDL higher, this is undesirable from a longevity/cardiovascular health perspective. Aromasin doesn’t have this effect but it also has an androgenic metabolite which can exacerbate acne in some. Also, Aromasin lowers SHBG which can be undesirable. If SHBG is in the single digits, anabolism through the SHBG receptor complex is impaired. People forget that androgens mediate anabolism through both the Androgen Receptor Complex and the SHBG Receptor Complex. These mediate anabolism through DISTINCT pathways. For this reason, crushing your SHBG is highly undesirable from a bodybuilding perspective.
2) Dosing AI’s is a bitch. Anastrozole has a half life of 48 hours. It takes about one week of daily administration to reach a steady state. A small increment in dose can be the difference between ideal E2 levels and crashed E2 levels.
Aromasin has a short half life of roughly 10-24 hours but it inactivated aromatase enzymes. It takes about 5 days for the body to regenerate the aromatase enzymes inactivated by Aromasin.
Letrozole is also extremely easy to crash your E2 with.
E2 is incredibly cardioprotective. It raises HDL and LDL and protects the nervous system from the neurotoxicity of androgen exposure. Neurons die when exposed to androgens but don’t die if they have sufficient E2 around at the same time. Burying your E2 while on cycle with excessive AI or DHT derivative use can quite literally lower your IQ over time.
Additionally, E2 is anabolic. It upregulates androgen receptors and also mediates anabolism through an alternative pathway via the Estrogen Receptor (alpha and beta)
That being said, there are intelligent use cases for AI’s. Taking a very small dose while monitoring blood work to ensure you maintain a healthy E2 is fine.
The problem is that it is SO, SO difficult to use the right dose of AI. If you’ve ever crashed your E2, you know how fucking miserable it is. You can’t walk without creaking joints. You’re super tired, depressed, your dick doesn’t work. You can’t train because you have no motivation.
I always suggest someone using an AI to keep Dbol, HCG, or TNE on hand in case they crash their shit.
Hey man,Hello There...
Could you please explain your last comment a little (I always suggest someone using an AI to keep Dbol, HCG, or TNE on hand in case they crash their shit.) ???
I've never had high E2 sides till recently. I'm using 400mg Test-Cyp/wk. A little over a month ago I got some bogus Winstrol, which was actually DBol I'm nearly certain(sourced before finding this place). I got so puffy, dick shut off like a switch, etc. Now a month after stopping all but the test, I feel much better. I added .25 Adex (2x/wk) and it feels just right.
I was just curious about your comment about having DBol, HCG, TNE on hand???
Thanks
i feel like youre a walking talking medical book. lol good info! thanks for sharing and allowing us to stay safe.Hey man,
No worries . Let me clarify.
First of all, at 400 mg per week 0.25 mg adex x2 per week should be okay. You’re very unlikely to crash your E2 with this.
That being said, imagine a scenario where you accidentally take too much Ai. Okay, let’s say your E2 is in single digits (ideally confirmed with blood work, but when your E2 is that low, it’s very difficult to miss. You will feel like absolute dogshit. Joints aching and popping, no libido/erectile function, etc.)
If your E2 is tanked by taking too much adex, do you really want to feel miserable for a week or two before you bounce back?
Or, would you rather pin 50 mg of TNE (test no ester) and feel better pretty much ASAP? One could also use a LOW dose of dbol (like 5-10 mg) for 2-3 days since it also converts to a form of estrogen (methylestradiol). Alternatively, one could use 500 IU or so of HCG to raise E2
I prefer TNE > HCG > Dbol. The methylestradiol from DBol isn’t bioidentical and doesn’t fulfill the same physiological functions as E2. Also, methylestradiol from dbol is metabolism resistant and sticks around in your bloodstream for a while.
Haha no worries! I’m a biochem major and a med student so this stuff is right up my alley. I’m also more than willing to analyze blood work and give some general health recommendations (disclaimer, not a doctor yet, not medical advise) to anyone who’s having issues and doesn’t feel comfortable going to a physician.i feel like youre a walking talking medical book. lol good info! thanks for sharing and allowing us to stay safe.
THANK YOU!!!Hey man,
No worries . Let me clarify.
First of all, at 400 mg per week 0.25 mg adex x2 per week should be okay. You’re very unlikely to crash your E2 with this.
That being said, imagine a scenario where you accidentally take too much Ai. Okay, let’s say your E2 is in single digits (ideally confirmed with blood work, but when your E2 is that low, it’s very difficult to miss. You will feel like absolute dogshit. Joints aching and popping, no libido/erectile function, etc.)
If your E2 is tanked by taking too much adex, do you really want to feel miserable for a week or two before you bounce back?
Or, would you rather pin 50 mg of TNE (test no ester) and feel better pretty much ASAP? One could also use a LOW dose of dbol (like 5-10 mg) for 2-3 days since it also converts to a form of estrogen (methylestradiol). Alternatively, one could use 500 IU or so of HCG to raise E2
I prefer TNE > HCG > Dbol. The methylestradiol from DBol isn’t bioidentical and doesn’t fulfill the same physiological functions as E2. Also, methylestradiol from dbol is metabolism resistant and sticks around in your bloodstream for a while.
A source here once sent me DBOL when I ordered anavar. I put on good weight 222 beginning weight up to 247, then dropped 5 pounds and stayed there hahaTHANK YOU!!!
I can definitely confirm it takes DBol a while to flush out. I will never go near it after that accidental taking it. I'm sure it was a combination of things but I was a mess for a few weeks.
Appreciate the info
Wow, I really thought sources here were better than that. How did you determine it was DBol? Just from it's effects or a test?A source here once sent me DBOL when I ordered anavar. I put on good weight 222 beginning weight up to 247, then dropped 5 pounds and stayed there haha
So no complaints. Would leave a review, but that's a double edged sword in that situation
who was it.A source here once sent me DBOL when I ordered anavar. I put on good weight 222 beginning weight up to 247, then dropped 5 pounds and stayed there haha
So no complaints. Would leave a review, but that's a double edged sword in that situation
I started putting on large amounts of weight even with a very strict diet out of nowhere, intense lower back pump that seemed to last til I stopped taking it eventually at the almost 4 week mark and I remember ordering anavar from this source previously and it being a different color and very effective for cutting. I didn't test so it's just my speculation, but 222 pounds to 247 in maybe a month. I don't think that was anavar.Wow, I really thought sources here were better than that. How did you determine it was DBol? Just from it's effects or a test?
After my junk being shut off, I'm scared to do much. The psych part was even worse. Now a month later I'm still not 100%. My ankles were so inflated it was crazy. That was the biggest sign it wasn't Winstrol. I'm sure the junk shutting down was a mix of variables but it really freaked me out.
I was considering buying from roidtest just to verify. Really curious how you figured it out?
Thanks
who was the sourceI started putting on large amounts of weight even with a very strict diet out of nowhere, intense lower back pump that seemed to last til I stopped taking it eventually at the almost 4 week mark and I remember ordering anavar from this source previously and it being a different color and very effective for cutting. I didn't test so it's just my speculation, but 222 pounds to 247 in maybe a month. I don't think that was anavar.
i got var from a bird source on here and my bp went through the roof on just 50mg. i dont think its var. going to have a buddy run it and if his bp sky rockets, im not going to buy the roidtest, im going to say its dbol. i have two different sources of var at my house and the oil susp. i ran to 100 and had no problems. the bird source i ran twice at 50 and my bp was at 150-90. the next day after the var was out my bp was good.I started putting on large amounts of weight even with a very strict diet out of nowhere, intense lower back pump that seemed to last til I stopped taking it eventually at the almost 4 week mark and I remember ordering anavar from this source previously and it being a different color and very effective for cutting. I didn't test so it's just my speculation, but 222 pounds to 247 in maybe a month. I don't think that was anavar.