Why Test as base

[BigRed1251]

I’m still pretty new in the steroid community and I get there are some things that do not change because they “work” but I really want to discuss something.
It is known that orals are harsh on the liver. Most would argue against an oral only cycle and would say that you need to use test as a base. Why? Give me some real science behind why you think this is a must. Just because your body has extra Test in it, synthetic at that, doesn’t mean that all of the sudden your liver can handle orals. Most orals are derivatives of test, some even more potent than test. So, we’ve already knocked out the assumption that it will aid the liver in dealing with orals, and if you even remotely understand how hormones in the body work, then you know if you take orals which are test derivatives and test together, then your body can’t possibly process all that test and it will get turned into estrogen.
Simply put, test as a base so far means more sides and still toxic to the liver.
The next issue I here with an oral only cycle is that you don’t keep the gains. Let’s think with some logic here.
You take steroids, you gain lean muscle, you learn to train at a new intensity and you’re on a proper diet. With a proper PCT, how do you think your body will magically shred your new gains? I mean honestly, the only argument I could see is without a proper PCT. Or using something like DBOL where the weights gains are based on water.
I think people on here need to really learn to follow the saying, less is more. More steroids do not always equal more gains. It’s really sad when you see people on here stacking three to four different things at one time and then saying my bench went from 225 to 275. Seriously. I hope to hear back from someone who truly understands how these extra hormones metabolised in our bodies and can give me some insight on the test as a base nonsense.

 

[spinnin1]

Because orals shut down your natural testosterone production. Having your natural test shut down and no source of testosterone you’ll feel like shit, among other things. There’s a reason doctors prescribe testosterone for guys with low t. It’s not fun. It doesn’t have anything to do with your liver handling it better. “less is more” isn’t always applicable. You’d be crazy to think you’d get just as much from a single oral cycle vs test and an oral, or test and tren for example. There’s a reason people stack steroids, it works. There’s tons of information all over the internet. If you don’t want to believe it then your only real option is trying both. If you don’t want to pin maybe gear isn’t your thing.

 

[Xegar54]

In theory, certain drugs can replace testosterone like dbol (which was originally made for hypogonadism) or trest (which you have to pin). That being said, lol just lol at a dbol only cycle.

Testosterone is a drug your body produces naturally, your body doesn’t differentiate between exogenous testosterone that you pin or testosterone that you make endogenously.

Testosterone isn’t liver toxic until you get up to really, really high doses. Also, testosterone sides are more easy to mitigate than that of other drugs. I can understand not wanting to use testosterone if we were living in the 70’s before SERMs and AIs but we have those things.

If you really think “test as a base” is nonsense, then go ahead and do a bunch of oral only cycles. One of my friends used the otc steroids back in the day, he kept all of the strength gains but he didn’t keep any of the muscle mass. Of course, he’s pinning now. You can’t get around the fact that eventually you’ll have to pin, rationalize all you want.

 

[juicyfatpowerlifter]

Just pin, you pussy faggot. smh

 

[Skrackey]

You don’t know wtf you’re talking about. First go read the symptoms of hypogonadism. Then maybe it will click in your small brain, that you dont need to run test at extra physiological levels. Run a dose so you can maintain healthy tesosterone levels at 500-1200 ng/dl. At this point you stacking other compounds will give your body different results, typically (based on yoyr goal). This is my opinion, but I think cycling steroids is dumb. If you hop on stay on blast and hrt. Im not a fan of test I dont even run it when im blasting only when cruising, I never go above 100mg per week of test. Do I recommend doing this? not at all I just get horrible side effects from test and convert estrogen super easily.

 

[Trentacle_Grape]

It’s not about protecting your liver. Where the fuck did you hear that claim? Some orals like anavar aren’t even that hepatotoxic relative to other orals.

You need a test base because you will simultaneously experience some low test symptoms from your body shutting down it’s natural test production because you are administering exogenous hormones. If you are not taking an oral that aromatizes then you’ll also experience low/crashed estro symptoms.

It’s why exogenous test is prescribed as the treatment for hypogonadal men instead of tren, mast, or sdrol. Trestolone came close but it’s e2 sides made people scrap the idea iirc.

if you take orals which are test derivatives and test together, then your body can’t possibly process all that test and it will get turned into estrogen

Jesus Christ you need to read up on basic human physiology. Testosterone will aromatize into estradiol regardless of wether it is produced endogenously or administered exogenously. It’s how the male body produces estrogen.

Just because a steroid is a derivative of testosterone doesn’t mean that they will function the same way. Look at clostebol which is a test derivative and Halotestin which is a 17aa test derivative, they don’t even aromatize.

The next issue I here with an oral only cycle is that you don’t keep the gains. Let’s think with some logic here…With a proper PCT, how do you think your body will magically shred your new gains?

Gains from an oral only cycle are keepable, but not all of them. Hell with proper training, nutrition, and PCT you might even be able to keep gains past your natty limit.

Orals bring about drastic cosmetic changes in a short timeframe but realistically speaking how much muscle can you really build in a 6-8 week oral cycle?

Wet compounds like drol and sdrol increase your ability to store glycogen and will bring a lot of water weight to the mix since there is 3 to 4 parts water to one part of glycogen molecule on top of shifting the way your body stores water weight to favor intramuscular instead of subcutaneous storage. And for something like dbol which also aromatizes to estradiol and methylestradiol, once estrogen is at supraphysiological levels even more water retention is to be expected. If someone at their genetic limit gains 30lbs from a drol only cycle and keep eating to maintain that weight post-cycle they will get fat. So how much lean body mass did they actually make in this short oral only cycle once they lose the ability to store supraphysiological levels of glycogen?

How much lbm can you really put on with a short cycle of dry orals like var and winny? I’ve seen some athletes look the same if not slightly leaner after a month or month an a half long cycle of these compounds only, and the once who put on drastic weight usually gained a noticeable amount of fat too.

Since most people can only run orals for a few weeks at a time they will realistically put on only a small amount of lbm. The further someone is from their natty limit, the more gains they keep assuming they do things right.

The only time a drastic amount of lbm is built in the short timeframe it takes to run an oral cycle is when slin and gh is involved.

 

[Brochacho_Prime]

Actually boys, lets let him do a little science experiment since research isn’t his strong point.

Do a dbol only cycle, 50mg/day for 8 weeks, then get back to us how you feel for the 4 weeks after that.

Also before and after full body pictures.

 

[BigRed1251]

spinnin1" pid='27272' dateline='1538815648:

Because orals shut down your natural testosterone production. Having your natural test shut down and no source of testosterone you’ll feel like shit, among other things. There’s a reason doctors prescribe testosterone for guys with low t. It’s not fun. It doesn’t have anything to do with your liver handling it better. “less is more” isn’t always applicable. You’d be crazy to think you’d get just as much from a single oral cycle vs test and an oral, or test and tren for example. There’s a reason people stack steroids, it works. There’s tons of information all over the internet. If you don’t want to believe it then your only real option is trying both. If you don’t want to pin maybe gear isn’t your thing.

Tring to find where I said I don’t pin or don’t want to pin. You say that like every person jumping on a cycle starts with an oral only to understand that. have you personal done an oral only, or just replying based off of your research?

---

Xegar54" pid='27277' dateline='1538832319:

In theory, certain drugs can replace testosterone like dbol (which was originally made for hypogonadism) or trest (which you have to pin). That being said, lol just lol at a dbol only cycle.

Testosterone is a drug your body produces naturally, your body doesn’t differentiate between exogenous testosterone that you pin or testosterone that you make endogenously.

Testosterone isn’t liver toxic until you get up to really, really high doses. Also, testosterone sides are more easy to mitigate than that of other drugs. I can understand not wanting to use testosterone if we were living in the 70’s before SERMs and AIs but we have those things.

If you really think “test as a base” is nonsense, then go ahead and do a bunch of oral only cycles. One of my friends used the otc steroids back in the day, he kept all of the strength gains but he didn’t keep any of the muscle mass. Of course, he’s pinning now. You can’t get around the fact that eventually you’ll have to pin, rationalize all you want.

Hopefully, you see the issue with your argument of your “one friend” that didn’t seem to keep his gains. Sounds like bad genetics, placebo effect, or a combo of both. I mean shit, I don’t blame him for hopping on a cycle if he couldn’t keep his gains that he was making naturally, or is that just a steroid thing?

---

Trentacle Grape" pid='27282' dateline='1538833869:

It’s not about protecting your liver. Where the fuck did you hear that claim? Some orals like anavar aren’t even that hepatotoxic relative to other orals.

You need a test base because you will simultaneously experience some low test symptoms from your body shutting down it’s natural test production because you are administering exogenous hormones. If you are not taking an oral that aromatizes then you’ll also experience low/crashed estro symptoms.

It’s why exogenous test is prescribed as the treatment for hypogonadal men instead of tren, mast, or sdrol. Trestolone came close but it’s e2 sides made people scrap the idea iirc.

if you take orals which are test derivatives and test together, then your body can’t possibly process all that test and it will get turned into estrogen

Jesus Christ you need to read up on basic human physiology. Testosterone will aromatize into estradiol regardless of wether it is produced endogenously or administered exogenously. It’s how the male body produces estrogen.

Just because a steroid is a derivative of testosterone doesn’t mean that they will function the same way. Look at clostebol which is a test derivative and Halotestin which is a 17aa test derivative, they don’t even aromatize.

The next issue I here with an oral only cycle is that you don’t keep the gains. Let’s think with some logic here…With a proper PCT, how do you think your body will magically shred your new gains?

Gains from an oral only cycle are keepable, but not all of them. Hell with proper training, nutrition, and PCT you might even be able to keep gains past your natty limit.

Orals bring about drastic cosmetic changes in a short timeframe but realistically speaking how much muscle can you really build in a 6-8 week oral cycle?

Wet compounds like drol and sdrol increase your ability to store glycogen and will bring a lot of water weight to the mix since there is 3 to 4 parts water to one part of glycogen molecule on top of shifting the way your body stores water weight to favor intramuscular instead of subcutaneous storage. And for something like dbol which also aromatizes to estradiol and methylestradiol, once estrogen is at supraphysiological levels even more water retention is to be expected. If someone at their genetic limit gains 30lbs from a drol only cycle and keep eating to maintain that weight post-cycle they will get fat. So how much lean body mass did they actually make in this short oral only cycle once they lose the ability to store supraphysiological levels of glycogen?

How much lbm can you really put on with a short cycle of dry orals like var and winny? I’ve seen some athletes look the same if not slightly leaner after a month or month an a half long cycle of these compounds only, and the once who put on drastic weight usually gained a noticeable amount of fat too.

Since most people can only run orals for a few weeks at a time they will realistically put on only a small amount of lbm. The further someone is from their natty limit, the more gains they keep assuming they do things right.

The only time a drastic amount of lbm is built in the short timeframe it takes to run an oral cycle is when slin and gh is involved.

Alright man, If you think because you read a wiki article on steroids that you’re all of the sudden a biology major, then you have an issue haha It sucks because it really does seem like you understand at least a little bit of what’s going on, but you’re hurt about the idea of the bioscience being wrong so you have to insult me in between you’re replying to my questions/statements.

---

Brochacho_Prime" pid='27283' dateline='1538835123:

Actually boys, lets let him do a little science experiment since research isn’t his strong point.

Do a dbol only cycle, 50mg/day for 8 weeks, then get back to us how you feel for the 4 weeks after that.

Also before and after full body pictures.

Let him do a science experiment since research isnt his strong point… lol nice. I’ll get right on that. Good input on the subject. Your brain must have been toast after reading my post.

---

Skrackey" pid='27280' dateline='1538833252:

You don’t know wtf you’re talking about. First go read the symptoms of hypogonadism. Then maybe it will click in your small brain, that you dont need to run test at extra physiological levels. Run a dose so you can maintain healthy tesosterone levels at 500-1200 ng/dl. At this point you stacking other compounds will give your body different results, typically (based on yoyr goal). This is my opinion, but I think cycling steroids is dumb. If you hop on stay on blast and hrt. Im not a fan of test I dont even run it when im blasting only when cruising, I never go above 100mg per week of test. Do I recommend doing this? not at all I just get horrible side effects from test and convert estrogen super easily.

Okay, so what you are saying is that you don’t follow the typical broscience protocol but don’t recommend it to any one else. I’m confused. Sounds like you’re just supporting my argument.

---

juicyfatpowerlifter" pid='27279' dateline='1538832694:

Just pin, you pussy faggot. smh

will do nonamedfatpowerlifter! Wait… that’s not your username?

 

[yelruP]

Why even ask if you already have your mind made up

 

[Skrackey]

Well I don’t recommend how I run gear due to the fact everyone responds differently to different compounds. I would recommend people run test first to see how you respond. If you can run high doses of test without sides thats great then you need a lot less of other compounds. In my case I learned I have to use other drugs to keep test sides down ex. Aromasin and accutane. Now that I dont use much test I dont have one acne or any need for AI and I feel much better. That isn’t the case for every individual. My go to 24/7 is Primo 500mg and 75 mg test per week. Right now im on 800mg Primo,800mg Mast, 400mg tren. Ill post my 0 Test blood work in a few days some people may be suprised that my estrogen is at 22. Even when shutdown withiut aromatizing compounds.

 

[Xegar54]

Hopefully, you see the issue with your argument of your “one friend” that didn’t seem to keep his gains. Sounds like bad genetics, placebo effect, or a combo of both. I mean shit, I don’t blame him for hopping on a cycle if he couldn’t keep his gains that he was making naturally, or is that just a steroid thing?

Close friend of mine. Not me, I’ve only fucked with AAS. You sound like a typical midwit who thinks he’s a lot smarter than he actually is. Go get your Dunning-Kruger syndrome fixed, I hear a deca only cycle with a dbol base is the way people like you can cure their faggotry.

 

[strongr007]

BigRed1251" pid='27268' dateline='1538807723:

I’m still pretty new in the steroid community and I get there are some things that do not change because they “work” but I really want to discuss something.

You started out by saying you’re new and let’s discuss but when you use words/phrases like “sad”, “nonsense”, “if you even remotely understand” and “let’s think with some logic” you’re asking for a bloody nose on a board full of guys who are NOT new to the game.

If you have some dbol based results yourself then post them. Personally I wouldn’t touch dbol because I never really come off. For me long esters with short ester bursts make more sense. Plus I’m selectively gyno prone and dbol has mad gyno issues.
Skrackey" pid='27309' dateline='1538859387:

My go to 24/7 is Primo 500mg and 75 mg test per week. Right now im on 800mg Primo,800mg Mast, 400mg tren.

2 grams a week and no test. How are you not feeling like shit? To me supplemental test versus no test is the difference between normalcy and depression.
Xegar54" pid='27313' dateline='1538865431:

Go get your Dunning-Kruger syndrome fixed, I hear a deca only cycle with a dbol base is the way people like you can cure their faggotry.

“Dunning-Kruger faggotry”

Nice one. Xegar gets the word of the day award - which is 8 weeks of dbol only (no test for you!!).

 

[Animutiddies]

What’s the deal with idiots on steroid forums coming around just to stir shit up like this?
OP clearly does not know what he’s talking about whatsoever. Just shit this shit down, move it to Dumb Questions.

 

[myron_gaines]

I believe oral have to pass through the liver that’s why they are more harsh. I’ve heard of anavar only cycles being good. I think sides effects are overly extracted there’s always that 1 guy who swears he got gyno 2days into dbol or got gets deca dick within the first week of pinning deca or someone claims they ran an oral only cycle and couldn’t get an erection… me personally I haven’t experienced any side effects expect for gyno which always goes away on its own after I cycle off or throw in some nolva and it took a lot for gyno to hit me.

 

[timmyxxx187]

Ban this fuckin idiot. How do people like this find this forum? Can’t we set up like “answer these 3 basic questions if you want to be a member” type thing?

 

[Xegar54]

myron_gaines" pid='27348' dateline='1538905478:

I believe oral have to pass through the liver that’s why they are more harsh. I’ve heard of anavar only cycles being good. I think sides effects are overly extracted there’s always that 1 guy who swears he got gyno 2days into dbol or got gets deca dick within the first week of pinning deca or someone claims they ran an oral only cycle and couldn’t get an erection… me personally I haven’t experienced any side effects expect for gyno which always goes away on its own after I cycle off or throw in some nolva and it took a lot for gyno to hit me.

Anavar suppresses your endogenous test and depending on duration and/or dosage will shut you down. The lethargy many people feel from oral only cycles is probably a combination of a taxed liver and low test/low estrogen (this depends on the oral of course). My bro who was using the prohormones couldn’t use them past 3 weeks due to the liver toxicity of the drugs themselves and low test/low estro. The drugs in question were more anabolic than they were androgenic and couldn’t fulfill an ideal amount of androgenic and estrogenic activity. Three weeks is enough to make permanent strength gains but I doubt that it’s enough to build enough actual dry muscle tissue. 12 to 16 weeks is far better for that.

Some non-testosterone drugs were designed to completely replace the functions of testosterone like dbol and MENT. However both medical and anecdotal reports point to them not being as good as testosterone for various reasons.

 

[gramps]

This guy is a clown. Clearly, his mind is already made up and he is solely here to start shit. To the guys responding and trying to reason - he’s not worth your time.

 

[deadlift2death]

Comes down to not getting natural test suppression and maximizing Gains by stacking. You will need support for your liver either way.

 

[TrenSexual]

This thread should have been labeled “You don’t need a test base, change my mind” like one of those Steven Crowder videos.

 

[yelruP]

TrenSexual" pid='27747' dateline='1539352554:

This thread should have been labeled “You don’t need a test base, change my mind” like one of those Steven Crowder videos.

Except Steven crowder is actually intelligent