Mystery Estrogen

[Scuba_Greaves]

cmlaracy" pid='34274' dateline='1544938421:

Scuba Greaves" pid='34273' dateline='1544938199:

cmlaracy" pid='34271' dateline='1544936545:

Scuba Greaves" pid='34269' dateline='1544936267:

Ex-opiate addict here as well.

200mg/day, God damn!! Hoping you have good insurance, because that would be one fucking expensive habit!!

Anyways, I don’t know too much about your estrogen problems, but it’s going to be difficult to help you because your case seems so specific.

Hope it gets under control!!

Just to clarify, not an addict, have come off easily 3 times when the pain fades. I use them when I’m injured or in a flare up and then I drop them, yes it’s brutal but that’s my life with severe psoriatic arthritis. I’m lucky in other ways.

Based on the article, I’m going through rebound while still on androgens because opiates shut down GnRH which is upstream of LH and FSH. My GnRH is bouncing back hard, and pushing my LH and FSH despite the androgens. It’s very clearly shown in the article in a diagram.

I have it under control enough with the nolva that I’m not miserable (0 cystic acne), but no one likes hot flashes and all that fun stuff.

My insurance covered 160mg, the rest was on me (another 60-100mg a day counting the oxymorphone). Yes it was insanely expensive, but pain will make you do almost anything if it’s bad enough.

Also, I think I’m experiencing the worst possible case of this, as my natty test floats around 1250ng/dL. Yes I’m serious. It has caused issues in sports in the past as well as physicals, my docs accuse me of using test when I’m natty.

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So basically I’m getting a GnRH rebound, upstream of LH and FSH, so they can ignore the androgens, on a system that usually runs above 1200 ng/dL naturally. I think we have this figured out.

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Your body went through withdrawal…you were Physically addicted…obviously I am not judging you, it’s just a fact.

Hope things work out soon!!

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I appreciate it, but I tend to like to draw a line between physical addiction and mental addiction. Physical addiction happens regardless if you take opiates every day for pain and does not make you an addict. Inability to stop and withdraw fully due to mental addiction is what makes you an “addict” which is a medical defined mental illness.

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It’s all good man. I didn’t specify in my first comment, and I honestly wasn’t implying that you might be some kind of junkie, Your “body” was addicted. There ya go

I’m also curious with what’s going on with your body/e2. Let us know if you do pinpoint the issue!

 

[cmlaracy]

It’s all good man. I didn’t specify in my first comment, and I honestly wasn’t implying that you might be some kind of junkie, Your “body” was addicted. There ya go

I’m also curious with what’s going on with your body/e2. Let us know if you do pinpoint the issue!

I really appreciate the support and kind words man, thanks so much! Even for someone with no mental addiction, 200mg+ a day cold turkey is something I’m very proud of. And I have PILES of opiates all over the place to tempt me lol

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POSSIBLE SOLUTION (90-95% confidence):
And we seemingly pinpointed it with that research article. Open it and check the diagram. GnRH is heavily suppressed by opiates and is what causes the production of LH and FSH. I’m getting a MASSIVE GnRH rebound and it’s upstream of FSH and LH and thus it can bypass the androgens to a degree and still elevate LH and FSH. Thank you so much for that article man you have put my mind at ease!

Now I’m wondering if I should use this as a way to jumpstart my PCT as FSH and LH are clearly up, hmmm. Wasn’t planning on PCTing for another 2 weeks. Something to think about. This has felt similar to a PCT rebound from the beginning…

 

[DankLifts]

I hate the quote system on this forum or maybe it’s just my phone.

PAWS from opiates will cause you have to hot flashes and sweat profusely. This can explain the oily feeling all over your skin. Again, it can take months for this to reside.

If I were you I’d drop to a test dose that you are accustomed taking. Opiates suppress natural testosterone production, but you were already suppressing them further by shutting them down with exogenous test and other androgens.

I would go to a cruise dose and take your regularly scheduled AI at that dose, however that’s just me. I’m sure you’re stressed out, however, just remember the body wants to return to homeostasis and will do so if you allow it to. Sometimes it just takes forever. Taking large doses of test and pumping your body full of SARMS, AI, and other androgens is just going to confuse it further.

If your test levels are naturally that high as you say, perhaps just quit taking everything to give your body a break. None of us are physicians nor do we have access to your blood work.

I’ll repeat once more: opiates reak absolute havoc on your CNS and body! Give yourself some time to heal, brother!

 

[cmlaracy]

DankLifts" pid='34278' dateline='1544946327:

I hate the quote system on this forum or maybe it’s just my phone.

PAWS from opiates will cause you have to hot flashes and sweat profusely. This can explain the oily feeling all over your skin. Again, it can take months for this to reside.

If I were you I’d drop to a test dose that you are accustomed taking. Opiates suppress natural testosterone production, but you were already suppressing them further by shutting them down with exogenous test and other androgens.

I would go to a cruise dose and take your regularly scheduled AI at that dose, however that’s just me. I’m sure you’re stressed out, however, just remember the body wants to return to homeostasis and will do so if you allow it to. Sometimes it just takes forever. Taking large doses of test and pumping your body full of SARMS, AI, and other androgens is just going to confuse it further.

If your test levels are naturally that high as you say, perhaps just quit taking everything to give your body a break. None of us are physicians nor do we have access to your blood work.

I’ll repeat once more: opiates reak absolute havoc on your CNS and body! Give yourself some time to heal, brother!

Thank you this is helpful! If I had any signs of low estrogen or bloodwork showing it I’d be inclined to believe it was entirely PAWS. But the fact is, I’ve been on only 150mg test a week for the past 3 weeks and my E2 bloods came back high. I’d like to start my PCT now but I’m low on nolva from this fiasco and waiting on a shipment; I could start my PCT and run out in the middle, same with my aromasin. Have plenty of Clomid but I’m hesitant to even try it, heard horrible shit and nolva works so well.

And yeah I’m looking for help and have no reason to lie, my natty test floats right about 1250ng/dL

 

[Pharmahgh]

cmlaracy" pid='34276' dateline='1544938885:

It’s all good man. I didn’t specify in my first comment, and I honestly wasn’t implying that you might be some kind of junkie, Your “body” was addicted. There ya go

I’m also curious with what’s going on with your body/e2. Let us know if you do pinpoint the issue!

I really appreciate the support and kind words man, thanks so much! Even for someone with no mental addiction, 200mg+ a day cold turkey is something I’m very proud of. And I have PILES of opiates all over the place to tempt me lol

---

POSSIBLE SOLUTION (90-95% confidence):
And we seemingly pinpointed it with that research article. Open it and check the diagram. GnRH is heavily suppressed by opiates and is what causes the production of LH and FSH. I’m getting a MASSIVE GnRH rebound and it’s upstream of FSH and LH and thus it can bypass the androgens to a degree and still elevate LH and FSH. Thank you so much for that article man you have put my mind at ease!

Now I’m wondering if I should use this as a way to jumpstart my PCT as FSH and LH are clearly up, hmmm. Wasn’t planning on PCTing for another 2 weeks. Something to think about. This has felt similar to a PCT rebound from the beginning…

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Anytime brother glad you have it figured out. with a strict regimen of noladex for the time being it may not be a bad time to start pct and try to get things back to normal. good luck

 

[cmlaracy]

So my mind has been wandering as it always does so I got some bloodwork to try and come up with a theory that I think could change the steroid community (on the small chance I’m right). My LH and FSH are quite measurable after a 22 week highly suppressive cycle and I’m still on high TRT test. This is because of my opiate cessation spiking my GnRH and bypassing the androgens on it’s way to boosting LH and FSH.

I found recombinant GnRH for purchase (https://www.abcam.com/recombinant-human-gnrh-protein-ab112295.html), granted at extremely high prices. Theoretically, could we take GnRH all cycle long and never get shut down? Somewhat like HCG but for LH and not just FSH!

Here’s the article which I used to figure all this out (or not, could still be wrong): https://www.mascc.org/assets/documents/pain_Impact_Opioids_Endocrine_Katz.pdf

and here’s the diagram for those who don’t want to read but want to see how GnRH is upstream of LH and FSH so it can “ignore” androgens and push their levels up.


Apparently this board doesn’t do images so have fun looking at my 10 year old photo bucket lol