What’s are u using for Kidney support during cycle?

[dick_starbuck]

You are only on telmisartan? No diuretics. How much water do you drink daily?
Although, I agree prils and sartans are amazing medications, kidney and cardio protective. Hyperkalemia is absolutely a concern to look out for, and people taking it should be very diligent about their labs in regard to this. Hyperkalemia can cause lethal heart arrhythmias, not to be taken lightly. Also, even slight elevation of potassium over the normal blood range can cause fatigue and tiredness definitely not symptoms you want to be dealing with daily.
I think a lot of people should be taking these medications who are not, but be smart about blood work and trending their labs!

Yes, I also take HCTZ 25mg a day as well as a diuretic. And I consistently drink 1-1.5 gallons a day.

And yes I agree, hyper/hyporkalemia is certainly a serious issue, and one who is going to take these medications should be diligent in monitoring health markers and bloodwork. HOWEVER the idea that we are more afraid of taking tried and proven life saving drugs than taking tren from a UGL is just... something I'll never understand.

You're already taking steroids. In for a penny, in for a pound. Take the ancillary drugs that will save your body and health, and let you keep doing this hobby for a long time.

 

[Deucalion]

Yes, I also take HCTZ 25mg a day as well as a diuretic. And I consistently drink 1-1.5 gallons a day.

And yes I agree, hyper/hyporkalemia is certainly a serious issue, and one who is going to take these medications should be diligent in monitoring health markers and bloodwork. HOWEVER the idea that we are more afraid of taking tried and proven life saving drugs than taking tren from a UGL is just... something I'll never understand.

You're already taking steroids. In for a penny, in for a pound. Take the ancillary drugs that will save your body and health, and let you keep doing this hobby for a long time.

Haha totally agree man! It amazes me that some people don't need bp lowering meds though taking test,dbol, tren etc. There was a guy here not too long ago, He was taking crazy doses of stuff and said his bp was 100-110's/50-60's like insane to me... I legit started on 275 test / wk and my bp was insanely high, had to start lisinopril at 5mg titrated down to 2.5 and bp are 110-120/50-70's.

Yea, that diuretic helps lower that potassium, you may also want to watch out for hypokalemia like you had kind of said.
How do you feel about preventative statins since you seem very passionate about bp control?

 

[dick_starbuck]

Haha totally agree man! It amazes me that some people don't need bp lowering meds though taking test,dbol, tren etc. There was a guy here not too long ago, He was taking crazy doses of stuff and said his bp was 100-110's/50-60's like insane to me... I legit started on 275 test / wk and my bp was insanely high, had to start lisinopril at 5mg titrated down to 2.5 and bp are 110-120/50-70's.

Yea, that diuretic helps lower that potassium, you may also want to watch out for hypokalemia like you had kind of said.
How do you feel about preventative statins since you seem very passionate about bp control?

I am really not worried about hypo/hyperkalemia, like I previously stated doctors prescribe these combinations of drugs to millions of Americans daily without issue. I get bloodwork every 8 weeks usually and never had an issue with blood electrolytes.

I dont think most people need a statin, rather they should tighten up their diet. I personally just use citrus bergamot and limit fat <80g a day. Some people may need a low dose of resuvastatin though, just genetic depending.

 

[webstar138]

Are you guys talking just over the counter NAC from Walgreens or whatever?

 

[psauce]

I use an astragalus supplement, and telmisartan. Everyone using AAS should be using a low dose of telmisartan as a preventative against kidney damage.

There's a bit too much variety in comorbidities and side-effects to start throwing telmisartan at everyone, but I agree a BP control isn't an optional measure anymore.

 

[dick_starbuck]

Are you guys talking just over the counter NAC from Walgreens or whatever?

I get NAC on Amazon, but yeah you can get it everywhere.

 

[dick_starbuck]

There's a bit too much variety in comorbidities and side-effects to start throwing telmisartan at everyone, but I agree a BP control isn't an optional measure anymore.

I disagree. We are a culture that will self prescribe testosterone, insulin, hgh, and numerous other drugs without care of comorbidities. Why draw the line at prophylactic drugs that can improve longevity and have a myriad of health benefits? Blood pressure is not the only reason I am bullish on telmisartan.

 

[Deucalion]

I disagree. We are a culture that will self prescribe testosterone, insulin, hgh, and numerous other drugs without care of comorbidities. Why draw the line at prophylactic drugs that can improve longevity and have a myriad of health benefits? Blood pressure is not the only reason I am bullish on telmisartan.

I think a lot more people could benefit even from a low dose of telmisartan but this medication is not a prophylactic. What reasons other than BP?

 

[dick_starbuck]

I think a lot more people could benefit even from a low dose of telmisartan but this medication is not a prophylactic. What reasons other than BP?

It is an agonist of the PPAR receptor, similar to cardarine. Positive impacts on fasting blood sugar, positive impacts cholesterol raising HDL and lowering LDL, reduction of visceral fat, just to name a few.

 

[Deucalion]

It is an agonist of the PPAR receptor, similar to cardarine. Positive impacts on fasting blood sugar, positive impacts cholesterol raising HDL and lowering LDL, reduction of visceral fat, just to name a few.

The thing is that is great, if you have high bp, wonderful added benefit. Not worth it for someone with low to low normal bp because any lipid or insulin resistance you are going to get won;t matter when you are passing out and feeling like shit. Again more people probably should be on it but not for anyone and definitely not as a prophylactic...

 

[dick_starbuck]

The thing is that is great, if you have high bp, wonderful added benefit. Not worth it for someone with low to low normal bp because any lipid or insulin resistance you are going to get won;t matter when you are passing out and feeling like shit. Again more people probably should be on it but not for anyone and definitely not as a prophylactic...

Studies show that 20-40mg of telmisartan does not cause hypotension in healthy normotensive patients.

There is a reason most top bodybuilding coaches have their athletes on it. It is part of the prevailing PED models being used by the majority of evidence based coaches.

 

[Deucalion]

Studies show that 20-40mg of telmisartan does not cause hypotension in healthy normotensive patients.

There is a reason most top bodybuilding coaches have their athletes on it. It is part of the prevailing PED models being used by the majority of evidence based coaches.

I think it is a very poor idea to subject a normotensive person to a medication meant for hypertension. A healthy body may compensate but that doesn't make it beneficial. Also study sounds weird, knowing that telmisartan is a bp lowering med with 20 mg lowering on average 6-8 systolic and 6 diastolic. Someone considered normotensive at 101/61 taking 20 mg having just a 2 point drop either systolic or diastolic would be considered hypotensive.

Top bodybuilders are running insane cycles that more than likely cause hypertension. If you want to go the route of it is due to the PPAR agonist benefits, telmisartan only actives a small amount of these receptors. If they are normotensive these individuals would be better off with metformin and a statin... Or a real PPAR agonist if you really believe in the insane benefits of that.

 

[dick_starbuck]

I think it is a very poor idea to subject a normotensive person to a medication meant for hypertension. A healthy body may compensate but that doesn't make it beneficial. Also study sounds weird, knowing that telmisartan is a bp lowering med with 20 mg lowering on average 6-8 systolic and 6 diastolic. Someone considered normotensive at 101/61 taking 20 mg having just a 2 point drop either systolic or diastolic would be considered hypotensive.

Top bodybuilders are running insane cycles that more than likely cause hypertension. If you want to go the route of it is due to the PPAR agonist benefits, telmisartan only actives a small amount of these receptors. If they are normotensive these individuals would be better off with metformin and a statin... Or a real PPAR agonist if you really believe in the insane benefits of that.

I mean sure man, I guess you better write that up to John Jewett and tell him to change J3U.

I get what you're saying, but there is a reason it's the prevailing drug model being used as part of the Safer Use Models, ALONG with berberine or metformin and a statin. It works without the detriments you're worried about.

And for what it's worth, I know a handful of pro bodybuilders on a personal level, and they are using significantly less gear than the majority of gym rats. Most gym rats/forum bros are pushing SIGNIFICANTLY more gear, and have untreated hypertension and hyperlipidemia, and some degree of metabolic dysfunction.

 

[Deucalion]

I mean sure man, I guess you better write that up to John Jewett and tell him to change J3U.

I get what you're saying, but there is a reason it's the prevailing drug model being used as part of the Safer Use Models, ALONG with berberine or metformin and a statin. It works without the detriments you're worried about.

And for what it's worth, I know a handful of pro bodybuilders on a personal level, and they are using significantly less gear than the majority of gym rats. Most gym rats/forum bros are pushing SIGNIFICANTLY more gear, and have untreated hypertension and hyperlipidemia, and some degree of metabolic dysfunction.

Just looked up j3u they only talk about using it with enhanced bodybuidling for hypertension and the fact peds cause hypertension. Also, none of these things you provided are any real standard. No reputable doctor would prescribe a medication like this for a normotensive patient...

That may be true to an extent but again in the presence of hypertension I agree with taking this medicaiton. If you are using the 25-30% ppar receptor activation of this arb soley for hyperlipidemia you are doing yourself a disservice. There are better options with lower risks.

We may just have to agree to disagree on this one, I agree more people should be taking them, but not people who do not need them for BP reasons, better options out there to mitigate other issues more effectively.

 

[dick_starbuck]

Just looked up j3u they only talk about using it with enhanced bodybuidling for hypertension and the fact peds cause hypertension. Also, none of these things you provided are any real standard. No reputable doctor would prescribe a medication like this for a normotensive patient...

That may be true to an extent but again in the presence of hypertension I agree with taking this medicaiton. If you are using the 25-30% ppar receptor activation of this arb soley for hyperlipidemia you are doing yourself a disservice. There are better options with lower risks.

We may just have to agree to disagree on this one, I agree more people should be taking them, but not people who do not need them for BP reasons, better options out there to mitigate other issues more effectively.

If you pay for the course, there is a significant amount of information on telmisartan and its uses outside of hypertension.

No doctor would prescribe anything more than 200mg of testosterone, insulin to non diabetics, hgh over 2iu a day, anadrol to non AIDS patients either. So that point is kinda not relevant to our cohort.

I agree with your sentiment. I do. However, you have to remember who we are talking about here. Amateur gym bros who don't monitor blood pressure, rarely get bloodwork, and never check their fasting blood sugar. Gym bros are basically walking time bombs of metabolic dysfunction of all kinds. I do think they could all benefit from many measures of prophylactic measures.

 

[Deucalion]

If you pay for the course, there is a significant amount of information on telmisartan and its uses outside of hypertension.

No doctor would prescribe anything more than 200mg of testosterone, insulin to non diabetics, hgh over 2iu a day, anadrol to non AIDS patients either. So that point is kinda not relevant to our cohort.

I agree with your sentiment. I do. However, you have to remember who we are talking about here. Amateur gym bros who don't monitor blood pressure, rarely get bloodwork, and never check their fasting blood sugar. Gym bros are basically walking time bombs of metabolic dysfunction of all kinds. I do think they could all benefit from many measures of prophylactic measures.

That does not take away the fact that it is an angiotensin receptor blocker that causes vasodialation, leading to lower bp.
Insulin has multiple uses besides controlling blood sugar. It can be given to hyperkalemic patients along with d50 to push potassium back into the cell. some medications do have multiple uses but are only utilized when there is an issue that the mechanism of the medication can fix without causing excessive harm or risk.

Benefit > Risk

 

[psauce]

I disagree. We are a culture that will self prescribe testosterone, insulin, hgh, and numerous other drugs without care of comorbidities. Why draw the line at prophylactic drugs that can improve longevity and have a myriad of health benefits? Blood pressure is not the only reason I am bullish on telmisartan.

So, your first two sentences posit that a-one-drug-fits-all approach to hypertension because steroid users also make other bad medical choices. That is a stupid argument and we don’t need to go further than that.

We can draw the line specifically here because there are about five generations of 8-10 classes of antihypertensives, each with different side effects and populations best served by them. Black men prone to obstructive sleep apnea and angioadema aren’t the best population for angiotensin receptor blockers, for instance. Calcium channel blockers, and diuretics carry the same blood pressure manage capability — older falls, black folks — without potentialliy deleterious side effects.

You’re not bullish on telmisartan, your bullshit on it. It’s good, for some people, but let your erectiom get past your library cards and let and started throwing it out like Oprah to an audience. That’s bad thinking.

 

[dick_starbuck]

That does not take away the fact that it is an angiotensin receptor blocker that causes vasodialation, leading to lower bp.
Insulin has multiple uses besides controlling blood sugar. It can be given to hyperkalemic patients along with d50 to push potassium back into the cell. some medications do have multiple uses but are only utilized when there is an issue that the mechanism of the medication can fix without causing excessive harm or risk.

Benefit > Risk

That does not take away the fact that it is an angiotensin receptor blocker that causes vasodialation, leading to lower bp.
Insulin has multiple uses besides controlling blood sugar. It can be given to hyperkalemic patients along with d50 to push potassium back into the cell. some medications do have multiple uses but are only utilized when there is an issue that the mechanism of the medication can fix without causing excessive harm or risk.

Benefit > Risk

That is your position, and I disagree that there is significant risk compared to the benefits that it can provide for our cohort.

 

[dick_starbuck]

So, your first two sentences posit that a-one-drug-fits-all approach to hypertension because steroid users also make other bad medical choices. That is a stupid argument and we don’t need to go further than that.

We can draw the line specifically here because there are about five generations of 8-10 classes of antihypertensives, each with different side effects and populations best served by them. Black men prone to obstructive sleep apnea and angioadema aren’t the best population for angiotensin receptor blockers, for instance. Calcium channel blockers, and diuretics carry the same blood pressure manage capability — older falls, black folks — without potentialliy deleterious side effects.

You’re not bullish on telmisartan, your bullshit on it. It’s good, for some people, but let your erectiom get past your library cards and let and started throwing it out like Oprah to an audience. That’s bad thinking.

I think you are misunderstanding my entire position.

I am not advocating telmisartan as a one drug fits all approach to hypertension. I am advocating for it because it is a drug with multiple benefits beyond hypertension.

If the goal was only to treat hypertension I would advocate for polytherapy, combining it another class of antihypertensive drug.

If you are interested in reading about the benefits to our cohort, you can read/watch Victor Black who does the best job at advocating the position. I don't have the skills to do it justice.

 

[910iron]

Any one know where to buy telmisartan online without prescription? I dont have health insurance right now