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Luxferro

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Had bloods done because I was having a bit of transient insomnia (waking too early, unable to go back to sleep), racing thoughts, irritability, etc.

I was doing the following:

Weeks 1-3: 210 mg test C (TRT) + 150 IU HCG ED
Weeks 4-5 420 mg test C (testing a blast) + 150 IU HCG ED

I got this bloodwork at the end of week 5

Week 6: Decided to back off and dropped down to 210 mg + 150 IU HCG ED
Week 7: Deciding to drop down further to 140 mg + 150 IU HCG ED

Here's my bloodwork:

I was taking 50 mg pregnenolone before bed but I'm stopping now due to the high progesterone

Lab Results September 01.png
 

CaptainAmerica

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Your e2 is high. Get that under control
 

Luxferro

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I’ll also be lowering my dose to 160 mg per week
 

Thrasymachus

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Estradiol is part of it, but your high T is hitting your CNS as well which will cause your mind to race while you're trying to sleep.

The question is are you showing physical signs of high E2 water retention especially at the ankles?

For me I'm personally against regular use AI, I see the health effects as negative. E2 is good for the heart, bones, brain. All these BB's dropping dead lately would be better off if their E2 was on the higher side to protect their heart.
 

Luxferro

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I seem to keep gaining 1-2 lbs on the scale every week. My ankles do seem a bit swollen. No gyno. Erections are really weak even with stimulation though. The insomnia started AFTER I went back down in dose. To me that’s weird. Of course, it takes time for the drug to clear. I’m cutting my dose back to 160 mg. In the meantime I’m going to take 0.125 mg anastrozole EOD unless I get joint pain.
 

Thrasymachus

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I seem to keep gaining 1-2 lbs on the scale every week. My ankles do seem a bit swollen. No gyno. Erections are really weak even with stimulation though. The insomnia started AFTER I went back down in dose. To me that’s weird. Of course, it takes time for the drug to clear. I’m cutting my dose back to 160 mg. In the meantime I’m going to take 0.125 mg anastrozole EOD unless I get joint pain.
You've got your CNS all out of whack.

It happens. I took this to an extreme when I was doing a gram a week of T, I can remember chest pounding in bed, racing thoughts, couldn't sleep at all.

The simple solution is to come off T and let your body balance out again and then start back at 10mg/day which is a true TRT dose.

Anything more than 100mg/week isn't really TRT, but I understand if someone wants to use more to rapidly gain strength, just understand that you're gonna start off a bunch of side effects as T/DHT/E2 are powerful hormones that effect every organ in your body.
 

Luxferro

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I saw a study that showed that at125 mg/week, most eugonadal men had basically no change in body composition after 12 weeks and those in the 300 and 600 group did. I think I’ll take the next few days off and go to a 140 mg/week routine for 3 weeks and get bloods drawn again.
 

Luxferro

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Also how TF does anyone mentally handle doing cycles if this is what it’s like? This shit is literally horrendous.
 

Thrasymachus

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Also how TF does anyone mentally handle doing cycles if this is what it’s like? This shit is literally horrendous.
You keep a log of everything you take, there's a learning curve to this. You make a bunch of mistakes at first and eventually you wise up and realize you don't need a lot and if you do blast you only take compounds that are heart, kidney and liver safe. No one gets this right from the start, you learn from mistakes.

Taking too much T is simple to fix, you stop using for 3 weeks and then start back with a smaller dose. You won't die as it clears from your system and it will be better for your health if you get used to occasionally quitting every 6 months to restore testicle size.

The old days of telling people to use high dose are over, that way of doing this is stupid.

We even now know that you don't need much of anything more than T and perhaps some NPP and you can put on all the size and strength you need without the toxicity. All these other compounds that have sides both mental and physical aren't necessary anymore.
 

AHomie

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I'm a little confused, Since this is your first blood test into the blast shouldn't this be used as a reference to know that you need an AI while using this much test? Wouldn't the process normally be to get on an AI and maintain the 400mg test? Or is your goal to use the most test you can without an AI?
 

MrMetal

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@Luxferro How fat are you and how much phytoestrogens are you consuming? You may want to play around with a different and/or shorter ester as well as breaking up your weekly dosage into EOD/ED injections.

As far as supplements go I've never personally used this however I've hear DIM (Diindolylmethane) can help with estrogen issues.

Regarding the HCG for some people it can give them high e2. Cut out the HCG before your next blood test (make sure its fully cleared your system) then go from there to determine how large of a contribution it is to your estrogen. If you're wanting to keep your balls working while on cycle maybe consider enclomiphene instead of the HCG. Like others have said there is a large aspect of this that is trial and error; it's your job to find the most efficient way of going about it.
 
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FrancoC

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I was going to mention dropping the hCG too. When I was taking it my E2 got high enough to cause gyno and water bloat. I wish I could keep the balls lower but not at the cost of too out of range E2
 

Dookierich

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Yeah I had that same issue drop the hcg. After 2-3 weeks see how you feel if it’s still whacky drop the test a bit.
 

Thrasymachus

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I personally can't use hCG as it causes me to bloat, experience severe headaches and I even start wheezing during cardio if I take it for too long, it also never worked for me to restore any testicle size, only quitting everything for a couple of months restores ball size for me, one of the reasons I prefer to use shorter esters so I can start the recovery process sooner.
 

Luxferro

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Interesting replies. Thank you everyone I really appreciate your replies!

I took 1 mg arimidex and 12.5 mg Aromasin yesterday (yeah I know it was overkill)

My face suddenly leaned out, boners are slowly returning. I’ll continue to do 0.25 mg arimidex EOD until my old TRT dose kicks in.

I kind of want to preserve my fertility. Considering freezing sperm but the enclomiphene route sounds interesting. Has that worked for anyone here? I’m still having testicular atrophy/pain on HCG lol.

I can get enclomiphene through a clinic but it’s $2.50 per 12.5 mg capsule. That’s a shit ton of money if I take it ED.
 

Thrasymachus

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Interesting replies. Thank you everyone I really appreciate your replies!

I took 1 mg arimidex and 12.5 mg Aromasin yesterday (yeah I know it was overkill)

My face suddenly leaned out, boners are slowly returning. I’ll continue to do 0.25 mg arimidex EOD until my old TRT dose kicks in.

I kind of want to preserve my fertility. Considering freezing sperm but the enclomiphene route sounds interesting. Has that worked for anyone here? I’m still having testicular atrophy/pain on HCG lol.

I can get enclomiphene through a clinic but it’s $2.50 per 12.5 mg capsule. That’s a shit ton of money if I take it ED.
Just remember AI use for the long term isn't where you want to go.

Yes it will get rid of bloat fairly fast, however this drying out can eventually effect your joints and make you feel flat in the gym. So you don't want to over do it, just enough to where you start feeling better and then stop the AI or use it only when you absolutely have to.

E2 keeps the joints well lubricated, protects the heart, has more to do with your mental sharpness, recall and verbal fluency than T does which is something that surprised me until it was proven with a huge study that showed it was estrogen levels that prevent a man from acting like Joe Biden and not T/DHT alone. Basically without estradiol in men your brain ages faster.

Obviously if E2 is too high then ED happens, which isn't good. So you you gotta work that out, which is probably why there are a lot of guys and I've done this myself that half/half T/Mast for TRT, but I don't do this like I used to, even though I do love mast prop, but it's better left for short cycles of say 6 to 8 weeks and then stop it for 12 weeks.
 

Luxferro

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I was feeling super lethargic and anxious with the high E2 as well. After taking the AI yesterday I feel a lot better. I’m suspecting that a lot of this is caused by the HCG use.
 

FrancoC

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The idea is to keep E2 at the high end of normal and maybe slightly above without the unwanted sides (gyno mostly). If taking an AI helps to achieve it that’s ok, but keep an eye on lipid levels as that’s where they have a negative effect on you. Elevated levels of E2 is also carcinogenic so be mindful not to have it run wild even if you don’t suffer negative symptoms
 
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