600mg test cycle

[Vio]

This will be my 2nd cycle. My first was years ago and was test e and EQ.

Now I am a little older (29) and work construction building homes so I’m very active during the day. Hopping on a 600mg a week cycle of test e (2 300mg shots) I was debating stacking it with dbol but decided just to run the test to see how my body reacts. I’m 6’ 220ish. I have some arimidex on hand but am thinking about getting some HCG for pct. Also considering just cruising on a lower dose after this cycle until my next blast. What’s your opinions on starting back with 600mg a week?

 

[T&H]

This will be my 2nd cycle. My first was years ago and was test e and EQ.

Now I am a little older (29) and work construction building homes so I’m very active during the day and sometimes am exhausted by the end of the day. Hopping on a 600mg a week cycle of test e (2 300mg shots) I was debating stacking it with dbol but decided just to run the test to see how my body reacts. I’m 6’ 220ish. I have some arimidex on hand but am thinking about getting some HCG for pct. Also considering just cruising on a lower dose after this cycle until my next blast. What’s your opinions on starting back with 600mg a week?

Sounds good to me. Test will build muscle assuming training and diet are on point.

 

[CaffeineandKilos]

600mg is fine, maybe a bit much for not cycling in years but that's matter of opinion really... Gonna need more than HCG for pct though

 

[deadlift2death]

yea Reccomended pct is Nolvadex (tamox) 20mg ED for 6 weeks. do not run HCG during pct as it supresses LH.
If you're going to use HCG you need to either take it the entire time, or start 4 to 6 weeks before you pin for the last time, then, wait 2 weeks with nothing to allow the oils to clear before starting PCT.


The following was taken from https://www.reddit.com/r/steroids/wiki/thecycle/pct/

Nolvadex on a mg for mg basis is far more effective than Clomid in stimulating endogenous Testosterone production, as well as being a more cost-effective choice than Clomid itself.

Nolvadex​

In all studies involving Nolvadex, for doses used to stimulate endogenous Testosterone production, only 20–40 mg daily of Nolvadex was utilized, and it has in fact been shown that doubling the dose to 40 mg or higher will not produce any significant difference in endogenous Testosterone secretion.

The only reason why many elect to higher daily doses of Nolvadex for the first 1-2 weeks of a PCT is for the purpose of achieving optimal peak blood plasma levels more quickly, so as to ensure more rapid HPTA recovery.

This isn't necessary and just further increases your risk of potential side effects.

Furthermore, the first week of PCT, there may be lingering suppressive AAS still in the bloodstream, simply leading to greater oxidative stress on the body by taking more compounds.

Recent studies have found that even lower doses than traditionally-prescribed are equally as effective.

PCT 10-20mg/day (Recommended 6-8 weeks) Starting at 20mg and reducing to 10mg if sides become too prevalent.

hCG​

The majority of anabolic steroid users from the 1960s–mid 1980s did not even utilize any compounds for the purpose of hormonal recovery, and the term PCT did not even exist at that time. When the use of hCG became increasingly popular (circa 1980), it was the only compound utilized. Since then, the medical and scientific understanding of such things has increased exponentially and there should be no reason for any informed and properly educated individual to utilize hCG on its own for PCT. When utilized in conjunction with one of the other two categories of compounds (an AI and a SERM), the dynamics change considerably.

hCG mimics LH and therefore actually keeps the testicles producing testosterone even when anabolic steroids are present. However, it does not induce the production of actual LH. The use of hCG on cycle, this is primarily done so that post-cycle recovery is easier. hCG is also used on cycle to prevent or at least minimize testicular atrophy that occurs due to the use of anabolic steroids. The testicular atrophy that occurs is not permanent, but will reverse once steroid use is discontinued and natural testosterone production begins again.

It has been mentioned already that much of the difficulty in recovering the HPTA following an anabolic steroid cycle is the result of Leydig cell desensitization. hCG is essentially an analogue of LH, and the testes after a prolonged anabolic steroid cycle would be as equally desensitized to hCG as they are to LH. The human body, however, produces LH amounts on its own that are far too inefficient for proper and rapid Testosterone production.

The body’s natural increase of LH and FSH following an anabolic steroid cycle is also not a rapid peak, but a very slow and steady incline, as evidenced by the study referenced earlier in which it was not until 3 weeks when LH levels only began to reach the normal physiological measurements following the cessation of exogenous Testosterone. Therefore, the body’s own natural LH production does not provide a high enough dose for stimulation, nor an immediate stimulation to the testes required for the initial increase in Testosterone needed during the post cycle therapy weeks.

We will be utilizing a SERM which will stimulate FSH/LH, but most will find recovery being a smother transition when hCG is utilized. Studies have in fact demonstrated the incredible effectiveness of hCG for this purpose, and it is even suggested clinically that hCG be utilized for the purpose of treating anabolic steroid induced hypogonadism.\4])

If you choose to include hCG in your PCT protocol, the best possible SERM for the PCT protocol is Nolvadex, as studies have demonstrated that hCG and Nolvadex utilized together have exhibited a remarkable synergistic effect in terms of stimulating endogenous Testosterone production, and that Nolvadex will actually work to block the desensitization effect on the Leydig cells of the testes caused by high doses of hCG .10

HCG is ran a couple different ways:

1. Over The Entire Cycle
2. Weeks Leading Up To PCT
3. 1-2 Weeks Before PCT
4. First 1-2 Weeks Of PCT

1. Over The Entire Cycle​

This is the preferred option, as it keeps the Leydig cells active, reducing atrophy and the reactive oxygen species (ROS) free radical damage incurred by prolonged shutdown. HCG can be ran over the entire length of the cycle to make PCT easy and efficient, if desired:

• Over Entire Length Of Cycle: 250 IU EOD
• Stop HCG use before starting PCT (SERM)

Important Note: 250 IU 2x/week is used by some, but there have been studies on maintaining intra-testicular testosterone in healthy men with gonadotropin suppression. This study found 125 IU EOD (437.5 iu/week) was 25% less than baseline. Alternatively, 250 IU EOD (875 iu/week) was found to only be 7% below baseline.13

For this reason, it is recommended to use 250 IU EOD. If desiring to be as close to baseline as possible, you would need more than 875 IU/week (7% less than baseline) and less than 1750 IU/week (26% above baseline). This is where the 500 IU 2x/week comes in, but without a study comparing, we are only speculating and you could need more. Alternatively, if money is a factor, it is best to use some hCG rather than no hCG, and you may do less than the recommended: 500-750 IU/week.

If only taking it for PCT, and not regularly:

2. Weeks Leading Up To PCT​

This is the preferred method after Option 1, especially for those that are coming off a long cycle or blast and cruise.

Starting 6 weeks before PCT:

• Weeks 6-4: 500-1000 IU 3x/week
• Weeks 3-1: 250-500 IU 3x/week
• Week 0: Start PCT (SERM)

3. 1-2 Weeks Before PCT​

Typically this will be run in the ~2 weeks leading up to PCT after your last injection, while you are waiting for your AAS esters to clear (assuming long esters such as Test E or C). If using short esters (Prop and/or Ace), nothing changes. You just start the HCG while on cycle (1-2 weeks before PCT).

If you chose to utilize hCG in this fashion (unless using short esters (Prop and/or Ace), there is one remaining issues to be addressed:

• The fact that hCG causes increased production of aromatase, leading to increased Estrogen levels. See Below

This is where the AI is to be utilized as a supportive compound for hCG use in this 1–2 week period, and after hCG is discontinued early on in PCT, only the SERM to be used in order to carry along the hormonal recovery process. hCG utilized in this fashion will be ran:

• 1-2 Weeks Before PCT: 1000-1500 IU EOD
• 1-2 Weeks Before PCT: AI will be used only as long as HCG

4. First 1-2 Weeks Of PCT​

Some will say hCG shouldn't be ran into PCT as it's suppressive, but as noted above in the study with Nolvadex, it has shown to be effective when run simultaneously with Nolvadex.10

If you chose to utilize hCG in this fashion, there is one remaining issue to be addressed:

• The fact that hCG causes increased production of aromatase, leading to increased Estrogen levels. See Below

This is where the AI is to be utilized as a supportive compound for hCG use in this 1–2 week period, and after hCG is discontinued early on in PCT, only the SERM to be used in order to carry along the hormonal recovery process. hCG utilized in this fashion will be run as follows:

• First 1-2 Weeks Of PCT: 1000-1500 IU EOD
• First 1-2 Weeks Of PCT: AI will be used only as long as HCG

 

[Vio]

yea Reccomended pct is Nolvadex (tamox) 20mg ED for 6 weeks. do not run HCG during pct as it supresses LH.
If you're going to use HCG you need to either take it the entire time, or start 4 to 6 weeks before you pin for the last time, then, wait 2 weeks with nothing to allow the oils to clear before starting PCT.

Right on thank you.

 

[deadlift2death]

Right on thank you.

added some info there aswell, make sure you read the wiki before diving in

 

[Vio]

added some info there aswell, make sure you read the wiki before diving in

Will do! Are you a fan of arimidex or nah

 

[deadlift2death]

Will do! Are you a fan of arimidex or nah

personally a fan of Aromasin. Arimidex is reccomended for someone who havnt dialed in their dose, based solely on the fact of how Aromasin works.
I crashed my e2 on aromasin during my first cycle and I was a psych case for about 2 weeks lmao. Extreme depression, mania, u name it, i thought I was dying.
In short:
Adex: faster recovery from e2 crash
Asin: has benefits but crash will tend to last longer if you fuck up

Arimidex (Anastrozole)​

Arimidex (Adex) will lower your Estrogen by about 50-60%. Of course, if you keep taking it that percentage accumulates so you lower 50% by another 50% and so on, you can easily end up with your Estradiol in the singles if you take it for long enough at a high enough dose and you aren’t converting much Estrogen from aromatizing gear (using low dose of Test and high dose AI). Arimidex is a good for new steroid users as if they overestimate their dosing for AI and get symptoms of low E2, they will bounce back back up fairly quickly and adjust as needed.

Dosage on cycle: dosing is user dependent and you should get blood work to dial in your dose, but MOST users will find .5 mg of Arimidex E3D or E3.5D to be a good starting dose for 500-600 mg Testosterone (just for a reference). Some may need more frequent (EOD) dosing or some may even need less than E3.5D; this is really something that varies person-to-person too much and without blood work there is no way to know for sure what dosage you need.

Aromasin (Exemestane)​

Aromasin (Asin) is an orally available suicidal aromatase inhibitor. Because Aromasin is steroidal this gives it a favorable Estrogen suppression profile and confers a few really awesome benefits over other anti-estrogens both on paper and in real experience. Steroidal anti-estrogens have the benefit of being lipid-friendly and they all lower SHBG which increases the ratio of free to bound Testosterone, which as many experienced bodybuilders know can have a relatively profound, positive impact on gains.

It is important to understand how drugs work in order to properly dose them, Aromasin is a suicidal aromatase inhibitor, this means that it binds with aromatase enzymes and as it does so permanently disables the enzyme and destroys it. Hence the “suicidal” this compound. Just beware, if you crash your estrogen on Aromasin, it can take a long time waiting for your E2 to rise again (compared to the non-suicidal AIs), which will have a negative impact on lipid profile, joint integrity, mental health, libido and overall gains.

Aromasin’s half life in the male body is actually very short (~9 hours) and it is quickly eliminated, however, since as soon as it enters your bloodstream it quickly destroys the aromatase enzymes present in your body, it is effective in maintaining significant reductions in estrogen for up to +72 hours after a single 25mg dose. Estrogen levels only begin to rise again after your body has begun to make new aromatase enzymes to replace the ones destroyed by Aromasin.

There is a great study on the pharmacokinetics of Aromasin in men which found the following:

• 24 hours after one 25mg dose estrogen levels are reduced by 58 ± 21%
• 3-6 days after initial dose estrogen levels return to baseline (without rebounding)

This means that you can find the timing and dosage that works for you; this flexibility is what makes Aromasin such a versatile Anti-E.

BUT WAIT, there’s more. In males, Aromasin was found to increase total testosterone by ~60% after 10 days @ 25mg/day, however the same study found that while it increased total testosterone by 60%, free testosterone was increased by over 100 percent! that’s right, it DOUBLES bio-available testosterone (in naturals of course). With all this said, it is an option to be ran into PCT like the study, when utilizing HCG right before or the first couple week of PCT. See the PCT wiki page for more info.

The Good:

• Lowers SHBG, increasing free test & makes all other anabolic steroids more bio-available (i.e. more gains)
• Increases IGF-1
• No adverse changes in lipid profiles for men (unless you crash estrogen - studies were also not on cycle and may be different)
• Is not liver toxic
• No Estrogen rebound

The Bad:

• Typical aromatase inhibitor issues here, include stiff joints and possibly lethargy if E2 gets too low
• If you crash your E2 levels, it will remained crashed until your body makes more aromatase at it's own rate.
• Typically more expensive than Arimidex or Letrozole
• Alopecia. The other two AI’s have hair loss/hair thinning as a side effect, but not full blown Alopecia.

Dosage on cycle: dosing is user dependent and you should get blood work to dial in your dose, but MOST users will find 12.5 mg of Aromasin E3D or E3.5D to be a good starting dose for 500-600 mg Testosterone (just for a reference). Some may need more frequent (EOD) dosing or some may even need less than E3.5D; this is really something that varies person-to-person too much.

 

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